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Delilah, on Medium Power
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Posted: 28 Feb 12, 12:40 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Someone needs to shut this organization down.

(oh, I know I'm gonna take Hell for this!!!)

No, not because they "try" to better our world... they are just another example of the Left blurring out fact.  Today they release a report that Iran is in severe violation of several acts.  This, just two years after stating that Iran is being unfairly targeted by the Western world (particularly the US).  Now they expect the Western world (particularly the US) to do something about it!!!!

So I decided to read their 2011 report on the US.  I'm sure your country's report is just as short sighted as ours.  See if you feel sorry for these three...

EXECUTIONS IN THE US
AI points out that David Powell was executed in Texas on 15 June, more than three decades after his crime, despite compelling evidence of his rehabilitation. He had been on death row for more than half of his life.
AI forgets that Austin police officer Ralph Ablanedo, 26, pulled over a vehicle for not displaying a rear license plate. The officer asked the dispatcher by radio to check Meinert and her passenger, David Powell, 27, for outstanding warrants.  Powell shot at the officer through the back window with an AK-47 machine gun. Initially, the weapon was set to semiautomatic mode. Ablanedo tried to get up, but Powell switched the weapon to full automatic mode fired at him again. The car then left. Police arrested Powell in the early morning in some bushes on the grounds of a nearby school. They discovered a .45-caliber semiautomatic pistol and a backpack containing 2 and 1/4 ounces of high-grade methamphetamine hidden under some shrubs. A search of Powell's residence uncovered another hand grenade, more guns and ammunition, books on weapons and combat, a methamphetamine lab, and three vials of methamphetamine.

Now I'm supposed to feel sorry for the guy?  "Compelling evidence of rehabilitation"?  This guy was fixing to do a lot more than kill a police officer.
_____________________________

AI points out Holly Wood (not a made up name!!!) was executed in Alabama on 9 September. At his trial, his inexperienced lawyer had presented no evidence to the jury of Holly Wood’s significant mental impairments.
AI forgets that Holly Wood, the incongruously named 50-year-old African-American man from backwoods Alabama, didn’t deny what he had done. The evidence was too overwhelming, and his lawyers concluded early on that an acquittal was highly unlikely. Wood’s 34-year-old former girlfriend, Ruby Lois Gosha, had been shot in the head on September 1, 1993. Her corpse was found in her bed at home. The 12-guage shotgun, under a pile of leaves at the home of Wood’s father. Because of the "Mentally incompetent" frequest abuse, Alabama and other states look also at how well a defendant is able to function in society.  His "inexperienced lawyer", as AI deems it, pointed out  Wood grew up poor in rural Crenshaw County,  Wood grew up poor in rural Crenshaw County, suffered from physical, mental, and emotional abuse, and had traumatic exposure to death as a child, He always had trouble learning. He had trouble paying attention.
 

Give me a break.  Lots of poor people with IQs under 100 grow up and DON'T KILL their ex-girlfriends.
______________________________

AI points out Brandon Rhode was executed in Georgia on 27 September, six days after he slashed his arms and neck with a razor. He was brought back from the brink of death and killed by lethal injection for a crime committed when he was 18 years old.
AI forgets that he was convicted in 2000 of killing Steven Moss, 37, his 11-year-old son Bryan and 15-year-old daughter Kristin during a burglary of their Jones County home in central Georgia. His co-conspirator, Daniel Lucas, was also sentenced to death in a separate trial and remains on death row.

Oh, poor Brandon.  He tried to kill himself and we didn't hear his calls for help.  If you asked me, they should have let him finish the job.  This guy killed a man and his two children while robbing their house.

________________________________

When will people wake up and stop sending money to organizations like this.  They don't give you the full story, just theirs... they have an agenda, obviously, and not the one they're claiming.  This has nothing to do with supporting capital punishment, which I don't.  It's about presenting a fair, fact based report... not their sugar-sweetened version of it.


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Posted: 28 Feb 12, 13:01 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Are you for real?

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Posted: 28 Feb 12, 13:14 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

And if you are, what do you feel is wrong with them stating that someone was executed? You said you don't support capital punishment, but also said that the guy who tried to kill himself should have been allowed to die. You also seem to think that the people highlighted in the report should have been executed. Yes, there are many people who grow up poor and don't kill people, but you don't know what you would do in that situation -- and i mean with the resources those individuals felt were available with him. As a middle-class person, its very easy to see other options, but without a good education, with a history of abuse and mental illness, it is a lot more difficult to find and access support. Its not a justification, murder is obviously unjustifiable and inexcusable, BUT it does mean that if effective supports are put in place, the person is a lot less likely to re-offend. Also, what's the point in keeping someone in jail for 30 years and THEN killing them -- think of the cost to the state in that 30 years. Plus mental torture of knowing they will be killed.

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Posted: 29 Feb 12, 01:57 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I do not understand your criticism re Iran. AI has issued hundreds of statements and reports and carried out numerous urgent actions concerning Iran.

http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/iran

On the above page you find 100 pages of detailed actions back to 2007. That does not mean AI did not do anything before 2007, it only means the earlier actions are not online. AI has fought against human right violations in Iran since the days of Shah Pahlewi.

As to the death sentence cases you list - yes, AI is against death sentences as are most civilized nations on this planet. It is a main concern for AI to fight against death sentences. I am not familiar with all of the cases you listed but one must be extemeley heartless in my book to plead for the execution of a mentally disabled person (Wood's IQ was under 70, not under 100). When a legal system declares a person sane only to be able to execute him, something is very wrong with that system. Oh yes - of course he was black like the overwhelming majority of executed people in the USA.

You can plead for the death sentence, after all you are not alone with this opinion(luckily more and more people change their minds)but do not blame AI for doing what they must do: fight against the death penalty wherever it happens.


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Posted: 29 Feb 12, 04:09 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Microwave-
"This, just two years after stating that Iran is being unfairly targeted by the Western world"

So they can't change their mind, based on new evidence?

"Now they expect the Western world (particularly the US) to do something about it!!!!"

Plenty of people think the Western world should do something about it.

"they are just another example of the Left blurring out fact."

I think you mean the Right. It's the Right who is ignorant, and proud of it.

"This has nothing to do with supporting capital punishment, which I don't."

If you don't support capital punishment, then what the hell is your point?

Why bring up three people who were executed, and accuse AI of not telling the whole story, if you don't support capital punishment?!

You also say that 'If you asked me, they should have let him finish the job', which suggests that you absolutely do support capital punishment! Either that, or you don't have much respect for human life.

"See if you feel sorry for these three..."

I feel sorry for anyone who are murdered, whether it be by an individual, or by the state.

I don't get you. You spend an entire thread, about soldiers urinating on corpses, rallying against things that nobody even said, and now for someone who claims to be against the death penalty (which is is probably not true), you are rallying against AI for opposing the death penalty? AI has no secret agenda. Their agenda is pretty clear, unlike yours. Pathetic.

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Posted: 29 Feb 12, 04:20 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Oh, and Microwave, you may not like it that AI, an independent organization, judges your country, however I HATE it that your country judges mine. The US is not in a position to judge any nation's human rights record, as indicated by its use of the death penalty (among numerous other things).

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Posted: 29 Feb 12, 06:37 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Like The Simpsons' Mr Burns, with this post Microwave has crossed over the line from ordinary villainy to cartoonish super- villainy.


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Posted: 29 Feb 12, 10:07 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I NEVER SAID I SUPPORTED THE DEATH PENALTY....   THAT WAS AMAZON WHO CLAIMED THAT  (See my first post and his first reply)

Scathed and unrelenting, I tread on...

What are they trying to accomplish? This is a multi-million dollar operation that flip flops more often than the Republican primary race.

My point about the executions is that they word it up to sound like these poor criminals have been treated unjustly. Tell us the whole deal.What if it was someone you knew, who's father and children were killed? Would you feel a little unjustly treated that some multi-million dollar operation is making MORE money off of your friend's killer?

Just seems we waste an awful lot of money publishing reports and suggestions that contradict something everyone knew was going to happen.

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Posted: 29 Feb 12, 10:09 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

@ Amazon: Not sure what you mean about judging Australia. I don't remember hearing about any Anti-Australian sentiment stirring in the US. Plus, I think Men At Work were the greatest pop-band in the 80s and still listen to Colin Hay today.

and couldn't they find some better examples of executed people?  Those people listed were dirtbags...  They painted em up like people who were making a difference, just about to turn the corner, etc.  Obviously I don't think a wise decision is to kill someone... for killing someone.  Just like Carlin said...  In Georgia, you're going to lock someone up for sodomy so he can be sodomized. 

But can we quit giving these killers a promo pack and fundraising capabilities?

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Posted: 29 Feb 12, 10:46 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

"What are they trying to accomplish?"

They are trying to draw attention to executions.

" This is a multi-million dollar operation that flip flops more often than the Republican primary race."

Nonsense, they have always been opposed to the death penalty, there is no flip flopping involved.

"My point about the executions is that they word it up to sound like these poor criminals have been treated unjustly."

Except they were! They were executed!

Microwave, you can be for the death penalty if you want to, but at least admitt it. Stop pretending you oppose it.
 
"What if it was someone you knew, who's father and children were killed?"

That's irrelevant. Emotion does not equal right. I'm sure that quite a lot of people would want to respond with violence if a loved one was murdered, but it doesn't justify it. It's revenge, not justice.

Whenever a pro-death penalty advocate debates the death penalty, they often ask 'what if it was your daughter/wife etc...' type questions, but ultimately, I think it's irrelevant.

"Would you feel a little unjustly treated that some multi-million dollar operation is making MORE money off of your friend's killer?"

Their budget isn't all important. Anyway they aren't makimg more money off 'of your friend's killer', but rather it's the reason the operation exists. 

"Just seems we waste an awful lot of money publishing reports and suggestions that contradict something everyone knew was going to happen."

What? What are you saying? That because these people were going to be executed, AI should do nothing? That is ridiculous. I guess people should stop protesting against war, genocide, and torture then as it's all inevitable. Ridiculous.


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Posted: 29 Feb 12, 11:18 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

"You're not allowed to change your opinion on anything in light of new evidence"

Binary thinking at its best.

There aren't too many people who'd want to see the world's most prominent human rights organization shut down. Most of them are dictators.

In an elite club you are. You should be proud.


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Posted: 29 Feb 12, 11:21 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

"Not sure what you mean about judging Australia. I don't remember hearing about any Anti-Australian sentiment stirring in the US."

My point is that you are criticising an independent organization for judging the US, however the US judges other nations.

"Plus, I think Men At Work were the greatest pop-band in the 80s and still listen to Colin Hay today."

That's great! :D

"and couldn't they find some better examples of executed people?  Those people listed were dirtbags..."

That's like saying that only shoplifters should be afforded the rule of law. The point is that NOBODY should be executed. By finding 'better examples of executed people' the focus shifts onto the executed person and it becomes an issue of who deserves to live or die. However nobody deserves to die, including 'dirtbags'.

"They painted em up like people who were making a difference, just about to turn the corner, etc."

I guess they're trying to appeal to those whose opposition to the death penalty is conditional upon who gets executed.

"Obviously I don't think a wise decision is to kill someone... for killing someone."

So you oppose the death penalty for other crimes?

You keep on saying you oppose the death penalty, but all of your comments indicate otherwise. I don't believe for a moment that you oppose the death penalty.

"But can we quit giving these killers a promo pack and fundraising capabilities?"

No, because we need to do everything we can to stop them from being executed.

BTW, I could make a similar comment about certain US politicians, however I'll resist the opportunity. :p


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Posted: 29 Feb 12, 11:24 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Amazon wrote:
By finding 'better examples of executed people' the focus shifts onto the executed person and it becomes an issue of who deserves to live or die. However nobody deserves to die, including 'dirtbags'.

But this is a cornerstone of the American right - using ideology to decide who needs to die.

Fear-mongering is a top priority for this movement. It couldn't function without it.


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Posted: 29 Feb 12, 11:44 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I NEVER SAID I SUPPORTED THE DEATH PENALTY....   THAT WAS AMAZON WHO CLAIMED THAT  (See my first post and his first reply)

Hmmm... so when God flooded the world and gave Noah the 40 day cruise, it was ok to kill everyone else in the world. Not sure what the population was at the time, but I'm guessing a few couldn't swim.

What about abortions? Don't they deserve some AI attention? What about Doctors who euthenize patients? What about kennels whoeuthenize poor kittens and puppy dogs?

But executing cold-blooded killers has to stop. And just WHEN in human history has an interest group stopped that?

The issue of human rights can get lost as the international community scrutinizes Iran's nuclear program.
-A.I. 2012

Ummm.   the issue of human rights WILL be lost if the international community DOESN'T scrutinize Iran's nuclear program.

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Posted: 01 Mar 12, 10:10 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Man, you are just... so... American. People who think (and that is a stretch) like you generally don't exist outside your borders, and thank goodness for that.

And please don't use the bible in an argument about things that actually exist. People who have reached the age of reason don't buy into fairy tales written 2 thousand years ago.


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Posted: 01 Mar 12, 11:08 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Thank God I'm just not Canadian. That would suck even more.  Sometimes, I guess you're just an ass, Bob.  Go sit on the fence with the rest of Canada, the most useless country ever.  Name one thing...  one thing they've done.  Ever.

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Posted: 01 Mar 12, 11:15 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I haven't given much thought to the topic of capital punishment. In India, there are convictions where the court "awards" capital punishment for crimes committed that are considered "rarest of the rare" in nature. Many of those convicted thus, get presidential pardon, where by their sentence gets converted into a lifer.
Let me ask shortly...what is wrong with capital punishment?

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Posted: 01 Mar 12, 11:46 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The Real Wizard wrote: "But this is a cornerstone of the American right - using ideology to decide who needs to die.
Fear-mongering is a top priority for this movement. It couldn't function without it."

Absolutely, which is just one of the reasons these people are so disturbing. That these people have such power in the US is incredibly depressing.


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Posted: 01 Mar 12, 11:47 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Microwave-"Hmmm... so when God flooded the world and gave Noah the 40 day cruise, it was ok to kill everyone else in the world. Not sure what the population was at the time, but I'm guessing a few couldn't swim."

Are you serious? Oh, god. 

"What about abortions? Don't they deserve some AI attention?"

I would imagine that AI believes in a woman's right to choose. 

"What about Doctors who euthenize patients?"

Doctors don't murder patients, if that is what you are implying. 

"What about kennels who euthenize poor kittens and puppy dogs?"

If you have a problem with that, consult your local branch of the RSPCA, or the American version. Regardless this is irrelevant; you are honestly equating murder with euthenizing puppies and kittens?

"But executing cold-blooded killers has to stop."

When are you going to admitt that you oppose the death penalty?

Oh, and last time I checked, murder is still murder even if the victim is a cold-blooded killer.

"And just WHEN in human history has an interest group stopped that?"

So what? Should AI just give up?

"Ummm.   the issue of human rights WILL be lost if the international community DOESN'T scrutinize Iran's nuclear program."

Let me guess, you think that if Iran develops nuclear weapons, they will destroy the world! God, you're paranoid. 

Anyway what does Iran have to do with the death penalty? Which you claim you oppose, even though it's obvious you support it.


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Posted: 01 Mar 12, 11:55 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Honestly Bob, I wouldn't bother. I am not an anti-American person and have no idea whether the ignorance just displayed there is a reflection of an individual or an insular nation, but when the well is that deep trying to draw water is a fool's errand. Reciting the history and present day policies of this country for the ignorant is generally a whiny and defensive and sad affair that we elect to do far too often in my view. If it was a real question borne from real interest people would have already found their own way to the answers. You know, what with the internet and everything.