Forums > Queen - Serious Discussion > Question for guitarists

forum rss feed
Author

Togg user not visiting Queenzone.com
Togg
Deity: 2390 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 25 Apr 12, 07:13 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I am curious to see if anyone here has reversed the strings on a twelve string guitar in the same manner as Brian.

If so did it make a significant difference to the sound?

In a nutshell, Brian has the lower string above the higher on on his twelve string where as the normal way to string it is the other way round. Effectively it allows a different tone when picking, but i have always been curious as to whether it really made a tagible difference and if so whether it's worth doing?


"It is better to sit in silence and have people think you're a fool, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt"
bootLuca user is on Queenzone.com
bootLuca
Royalty: 1186 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 25 Apr 12, 09:37 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

yes, I have reversed the strings on my 12 string...

There is difference when you play songs like Love Of My Life because you can play the arpeggio hitting the higher string instead of the lower

there is not many difference if you play songs like '39 with a lot of rhythm parts...

Fireplace user not visiting Queenzone.com

Bohemian: 889 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 25 Apr 12, 17:57 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Exactly. The difference is clear when fingerpicking, and not that clear when strumming with a pick.

matt z user not visiting Queenzone.com
this is not my display message
matt z
Deity: 2803 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 25 Apr 12, 21:36 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

This post actually confused me. I have a rinky dink 12-string cherry sparkle Danelectro (no, not a vintage)
And I have mine set to

ee
bb
Gg
Dd
Aa
Ee

Where the big E would be strummed first when going downward.

Are u suggesting the variation is....
eE
bB etc


Or... I dunno. I hadn't ever noticed this...maybe its time to get a bigger tv.
Would someone please elaborate?


Sincerely,
Verbally confused between misunderstood "higher" and "lower" when referring to strings, rather than timbre, as there are two distinct viewpoints


"Come tonight! Come to the Overbite! Come See Freddie rock Toniiiiight!"
Togg user not visiting Queenzone.com
Togg
Deity: 2390 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 26 Apr 12, 02:37 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Yes, the normal way to string an accoustic twelve string is lower string ie thicker string below the thiner or smaller gauge string, however on a Rickenbacker it's reversed and Brian does it that way on his Ovation.


"It is better to sit in silence and have people think you're a fool, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt"
Brian Maybe user not visiting Queenzone.com

Champion: 83 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 26 Apr 12, 18:12 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I can't believe that I never knew he did that! So my answer is, no, I've never tried it! :-) Makes total sense, I always wondered how he got those high notes to ring out so well in LoML. Thanks for educating me!

thomasquinn 32989 user not visiting Queenzone.com
thomasquinn 32989
Deity: 6256 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 27 Apr 12, 07:31 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Many guitarists do, actually. But when they don't play with a pick (and you shouldn't, on a 12-string), you don't really notice the difference in sound that much, as playing fingerstyle gives you much more control over the way you strike one or more strings.


Not Plutus but Apollo rules Parnassus

Togg user not visiting Queenzone.com
Togg
Deity: 2390 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 27 Apr 12, 07:53 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Interesting to hear someone say you shouldn't use a pick on a tweleve string...not sure I would agree, certainly there are precidents in music such as playing a bass with your fingers rather than a pick, but I would say it depends on what the track calls for, if you need extra bite, use a pick.
Regarding the twelve string I would say more rather than less times you hear one it will have a pick on it, but whatever works.
For example I prefer to play Here comes the Sun with a twelve string using a pick than a six string without. I dont think there is a right or wrong but that track seems to benefit from the twelve string tones and extra bite from the pick, it's not the way Harrison played it but who cares?


"It is better to sit in silence and have people think you're a fool, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt"
ludwigs user not visiting Queenzone.com
ludwigs
Bohemian: 459 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 02 May 12, 06:21 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I have been doing a version of '39 and initially I used the strings that were on it (Normal stringing with the octave string above the usual string) I recorded the 12 string parts but then decided to change the octaves to be lower and re-recorded the parts. It did have some difference......and I did use a plectrum...as does rian when he played it.
Regarding not using a pick - that is for classical acoustic guitars (nylon strung)although people still do

thomasquinn 32989 user not visiting Queenzone.com
thomasquinn 32989
Deity: 6256 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 02 May 12, 07:11 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Togg wrote:
Interesting to hear someone say you shouldn't use a pick on a tweleve string...not sure I would agree, certainly there are precidents in music such as playing a bass with your fingers rather than a pick, but I would say it depends on what the track calls for, if you need extra bite, use a pick.
Regarding the twelve string I would say more rather than less times you hear one it will have a pick on it, but whatever works.
For example I prefer to play Here comes the Sun with a twelve string using a pick than a six string without. I dont think there is a right or wrong but that track seems to benefit from the twelve string tones and extra bite from the pick, it's not the way Harrison played it but who cares?

Essentially, my point is that you find (acoustic) twelve-strings abundandly amongst guitarists in genres that tend to prefer fingerstyle over picked playing (notably folk and folk-rock, as well as jazz-influenced styles and some blues (blues based on the country-acoustic rather than the urban-electric style)). These are also genres where guitarists 'adapt' their guitars a little more than in most other styles. This includes re-stringing, modifying the bridge, a variety of 'prepared guitar' approaches and the likes. This is one of the reasons why, for instance, no two real folk guitarists sound alike.


Not Plutus but Apollo rules Parnassus

Togg user not visiting Queenzone.com
Togg
Deity: 2390 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 04 May 12, 06:51 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The other reason no two folk guitarists sound alike is one is usually too stoned to keep up with the other one. ;-)


"It is better to sit in silence and have people think you're a fool, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt"
thomasquinn 32989 user not visiting Queenzone.com
thomasquinn 32989
Deity: 6256 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 04 May 12, 08:22 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

And how does that not apply to rock guitarists, taking into account that 'stoned' and 'drunk' are, from a physiological point of view, exactly the same?


Not Plutus but Apollo rules Parnassus