Forums > Queen - Serious Discussion > Metropolis - Moroder remaster out soon on DVD in UK

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The Kurgan user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 09 May 12, 08:11 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

If you're interested only for the music, don't bother watching the film. If you're interested in the film, don't bother with this version: the Moroder cut really isn't very good. To be fair, it's really really bad. The story is incoherent, certain scenes occur in the wrong order - the only thing this film has going for itself is the fact that it was tinted, so it's almost like a colour version. This is really a "collectors only" thing.


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Posted: 09 May 12, 08:19 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The only GOOD version of the movie is the 2010 extended version which includes the Argentinian footage. The Moroder version sucks IMHO

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Posted: 09 May 12, 08:59 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I don't think the Moroder version is about the movie.. ..more about the music.
If you're a purist then the remaster with lost Argentinian footage is indeed the one to watch.

I did buy this one:
http://www.deepdiscount.com/bluray/GIORGIO-MORODER-PRESENTS-METROPOLIS-738329083328

Strangely enough it won't play in Europe.. odd for a German release.


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Posted: 09 May 12, 09:40 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

pittrek wrote:
The only GOOD version of the movie is the 2010 extended version which includes the Argentinian footage. The Moroder version sucks IMHO


Agreed. But most of the new footage is, sadly, in pretty bad shape.


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Posted: 09 May 12, 12:55 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I love the moroder version, It's art in it's own way. It sums up the 80's, it was made to be modern but is so much more dated than the movie.

======================
Agreed. But most of the new footage is, sadly, in pretty bad shape.
=======================

And the top is cut off; it's far more a version for historical record of the masterpiece than something the average person would watch.

============
certain scenes occur in the wrong order
====================

Although its better, the 2010 restoration still has at least one scene in the wrong order, while Rotwang and Fredersen are talking just after the reveal of Hal’s grave. There’s a chunk of missing footage, some shots have been reordered to hide it.


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Posted: 09 May 12, 14:09 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Don't go round complaining about the 2010 cut if you think the *nazi censored version* (because that's all Moroder had to work from) is 'art in its own way'. Because that's what bothers me most about the 90-minute cut (alright, 87) - it's been brutally censored by the nazi's, who cut out all they saw as 'communist', 'anti-fascist' or 'pro-English' and 'pro-American'. They butchered Lang's masterpiece, and I don't think their insult to Lang should still be viewed.


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Posted: 09 May 12, 14:29 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Don't go round complaining about the 2010 cut if you think the *nazi censored version* (because that's all Moroder had to work from) is 'art in its own way'. Because that's what bothers me most about the 90-minute cut (alright, 87) - it's been brutally censored by the nazi's, who cut out all they saw as 'communist', 'anti-fascist' or 'pro-English' and 'pro-American'. They butchered Lang's masterpiece, and I don't think their insult to Lang should still be viewed.
==========================
Wow way to take what i said and skew it, It is art is it’s own way, but I didn’t say anything about it being that way because it was cut to shreds.

Hitler lobbied for it to be saved and left intact, he loved this movie, it actually supported his vision on the “weak race” rising up. in fact i wouldn't be surprised if his commanding mannerism were somewhat inspired by this movie, just compare Hitler during his speeches to robot Maria when she asks the workers to rebel.

It was Alfred Hugenberg who cut the film to shreds.
I think you will find America cut the film first, The writer Channing Pollock decided it was too hard for Americans to follow so made his own story line.

Then the uk and Russia made cuts based on the American cut logs, because Paramount Pictures had editing control long before the Nazi’s got their hands on it (the German version became the shortest version.)

The version Morodor used was the UK version, cut in the UK by MGM for being "too long", it was, for a long time, The longest print, including the deadly sins and having the basic storyline intact. Before the 2001 restoration all restorations were based on the UK print, and the German intertitles were translated from the English ones as they were closest to correct.
Moroder's version doesn't use all the footage from the UK cut because he edited it to his music.

The 2001 restoration uses a recovered Russian print, which was stored after being declared “not suitable for viewers”, this print is the only surviving negative, it has its missing parts filled in with the UK print, and for the 2010 restoration the 16mm duplicate of the original movie which was edited in Argentina for violence and anything too sexual.
The Russian print had with it all the original documents too, including the list of things cut and the Original German intertitle texts, with precise locations of where they are inserted, this list was used during translation.
And that’s the history, what we have now is a wonderful mishmash of different versions, with different takes and alternative shots, nothing like Lang intended, but it is a fine example of different countries working together to unite a massive jigsaw puzzle.

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Posted: 09 May 12, 14:40 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Dane wrote:
I don't think the Moroder version is about the movie.. ..more about the music.
If you're a purist then the remaster with lost Argentinian footage is indeed the one to watch.
I did buy this one:
http://www.deepdiscount.com/bluray/GIORGIO-MORODER-PRESENTS-METROPOLIS-738329083328
Strangely enough it won't play in Europe.. odd for a German release.


It might have been a German release back in 1927, but it's not a German release in that link, is it?

The production company of this edition (Kiono Lorber) has an address in Western Midtown of Manhattan... I would be surprised if they even know that blu-ray is available outside the continental USA. :P

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Posted: 10 May 12, 03:14 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

tero! 48531 wrote:
Dane wrote:
I don't think the Moroder version is about the movie.. ..more about the music.
If you're a purist then the remaster with lost Argentinian footage is indeed the one to watch.
I did buy this one:
http://www.deepdiscount.com/bluray/GIORGIO-MORODER-PRESENTS-METROPOLIS-738329083328
Strangely enough it won't play in Europe.. odd for a German release.

It might have been a German release back in 1927, but it's not a German release in that link, is it?
The production company of this edition (Kiono Lorber) has an address in Western Midtown of Manhattan... I would be surprised if they even know that blu-ray is available outside the continental USA. :P


-----------------------------------------------------

Good point. Kino is originally a German company but i guess
this is a release of their American branch.. too bad though.

:(



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Posted: 10 May 12, 08:19 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

emrabt wrote:
Don't go round complaining about the 2010 cut if you think the *nazi censored version* (because that's all Moroder had to work from) is 'art in its own way'. Because that's what bothers me most about the 90-minute cut (alright, 87) - it's been brutally censored by the nazi's, who cut out all they saw as 'communist', 'anti-fascist' or 'pro-English' and 'pro-American'. They butchered Lang's masterpiece, and I don't think their insult to Lang should still be viewed.
==========================
Wow way to take what i said and skew it, It is art is it’s own way, but I didn’t say anything about it being that way because it was cut to shreds.
Hitler lobbied for it to be saved and left intact, he loved this movie, it actually supported his vision on the “weak race” rising up. in fact i wouldn't be surprised if his commanding mannerism were somewhat inspired by this movie, just compare Hitler during his speeches to robot Maria when she asks the workers to rebel.
It was Alfred Hugenberg who cut the film to shreds.
I think you will find America cut the film first, The writer Channing Pollock decided it was too hard for Americans to follow so made his own story line.
Then the uk and Russia made cuts based on the American cut logs, because Paramount Pictures had editing control long before the Nazi’s got their hands on it (the German version became the shortest version.)
The version Morodor used was the UK version, cut in the UK by MGM for being "too long", it was, for a long time, The longest print, including the deadly sins and having the basic storyline intact. Before the 2001 restoration all restorations were based on the UK print, and the German intertitles were translated from the English ones as they were closest to correct.
Moroder's version doesn't use all the footage from the UK cut because he edited it to his music.
The 2001 restoration uses a recovered Russian print, which was stored after being declared “not suitable for viewers”, this print is the only surviving negative, it has its missing parts filled in with the UK print, and for the 2010 restoration the 16mm duplicate of the original movie which was edited in Argentina for violence and anything too sexual.
The Russian print had with it all the original documents too, including the list of things cut and the Original German intertitle texts, with precise locations of where they are inserted, this list was used during translation.
And that’s the history, what we have now is a wonderful mishmash of different versions, with different takes and alternative shots, nothing like Lang intended, but it is a fine example of different countries working together to unite a massive jigsaw puzzle.


What you are saying about Hitler and Goebbels is only half true: in 1927, Hitler and Goebbels loved it. When they found out Lang was, to say the least, not a nazi sympathizer, their opinion changed radically. By the time "The Testament of Dr. Mabuse" was released, the nazi's had become convinced that Lang was an enemy, and most his works were officially banned. Those that weren't, were tacitly understood to be taboo for German theaters.

The third of three major acts of censorship was ordered by Goebbels in person, somewhere between 1934 and 1936 (the first, by Channing Pollock, immediately in 1927, was done *on German studio orders* and was primarily to do with the length of the picture [we should bear in mind that the average 1920s feature film was around 70 minutes], but also included some parts that were considered 'offensive' to German industry. This cut might not qualify as 'censorship' depending on your definition, but the second, also in 1927, cut out all that was considered 'communist' - on explicit orders of Alfred Hugenberg, a German ultra-nationalist conservative who would help Hitler into power believing he could control Hitler - and was in fact working with all kinds of fascist groups in 1927, because the NSDAP only consolidated the far-right landscape in 1930).

It is unclear what the exact reasons for the 1934-36 (exact date unknown) censoring were, but it is assumed that any part of Metropolis apparently critical of nazi industrial aims was removed.

The second and third cuts were made by nazi supporters, the third on nazi orders.



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Posted: 10 May 12, 12:04 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The third of three major acts of censorship was ordered by Goebbels in person, somewhere between 1934 and 1936 (the first, by Channing Pollock, immediately in 1927, was done *on German studio orders* and was primarily to do with the length of the picture [we should bear in mind that the average 1920s feature film was around 70 minutes], also in 1927, cut out all that was considered 'communist' - on explicit orders of Alfred Hugenberg, a German ultra-nationalist conservative who would help Hitler into power believing he could control Hitler - and was in fact working with all kinds of fascist groups in 1927, because the NSDAP only consolidated the far-right landscape in 1930).
======================

I’m not sure this second set of cuts or anything after it affected anything other than the German print of the movie, especially in 1934, with the uks relationship with German not being good at that point.
Although there was a Nazi following in the US wasn’t there, maybe paramount was still on good terms with Goebbels and the German studio so the cuts got through?

either way, I never tire of reading about the history of these movies, nosferatu is another good one that was rescued after being chopped to pieces and ordered destroyed. Fascinating isn’t it.

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Posted: 10 May 12, 12:10 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I was quite happy with my Gilchrist Moroder redux, but wonder how this new release will compare?
I will be getting it anyway, just to see.

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Posted: 10 May 12, 14:19 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

emrabt wrote:
The third of three major acts of censorship was ordered by Goebbels in person, somewhere between 1934 and 1936 (the first, by Channing Pollock, immediately in 1927, was done *on German studio orders* and was primarily to do with the length of the picture [we should bear in mind that the average 1920s feature film was around 70 minutes], also in 1927, cut out all that was considered 'communist' - on explicit orders of Alfred Hugenberg, a German ultra-nationalist conservative who would help Hitler into power believing he could control Hitler - and was in fact working with all kinds of fascist groups in 1927, because the NSDAP only consolidated the far-right landscape in 1930).
======================
I’m not sure this second set of cuts or anything after it affected anything other than the German print of the movie, especially in 1934, with the uks relationship with German not being good at that point.
Although there was a Nazi following in the US wasn’t there, maybe paramount was still on good terms with Goebbels and the German studio so the cuts got through?
either way, I never tire of reading about the history of these movies, nosferatu is another good one that was rescued after being chopped to pieces and ordered destroyed. Fascinating isn’t it.


It is fascinating, I agree. Are you familiar with the film "Broken Blossoms" (1919) by D.W. Griffith? I believe it's public domain now. He made that film because he was so shocked at the (violently racist) response to Birth of a Nation.


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Posted: 11 May 12, 00:48 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

It is fascinating, I agree. Are you familiar with the film "Broken Blossoms" (1919) by D.W. Griffith? I believe it's public domain now. He made that film because he was so shocked at the (violently racist) response to Birth of a Nation.

============================

It’s nice to have a conversation with someone who knows what they are talking about, I am familiar with both of those, and violently racist is an understatement, it gave rebirth to the KKK.

For the record any works before 1922 are in the public domain, of course, there are a few exceptions the rule. A few years ago I started putting together a catalogue of public domain movies, but gave up.

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Posted: 13 May 12, 09:10 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Dane wrote: I don't think the Moroder version is about the movie.. ..more about the music.
I did buy this one:
http://www.deepdiscount.com/bluray/GIORGIO-MORODER-PRESENTS-METROPOLIS-738329083328

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So is this UK 'Retro' release the same as the Kino remastered version already released on Blu-ray  in the US?
If so, I wonder if it will also be available on Blu-ray in the UK at some point?