Forums > Queen - General Discussion > Live aid official release PAL vs NTSC

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Barry Durex user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 10 Jan 17, 08:28 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

It seems there was both a PAL and NTSC DVD release of Montreal / Live aid.
My DVD is in PAL but on my blu-ray the Live aid set is NTSC 1080p (60Hz).
The (native) PAL DVD (upscaled to 1080p 50Hz) actually looks better on my TV (using the same blu ray player to compare).
Was there also a blu-ray release with Live Aid in PAL?

Queenman!! user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 11 Jan 17, 09:38 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Barry.,.. this discussion PAL vs NTSC was on Queenzone before. I seem to recall that since the deal with Eagle Vision was made all Queen DVD releases were converted from PAL to NTSC. Very inpopulair decision among the Queen base.

Since the UK has PAL and only US and Japan use NTSC this meant that all orginal PAL taped Queen reels were tranferred to NTSC.

SO... no PAL live aid DVD I guess


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popy user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 11 Jan 17, 12:56 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Read again. The DVD is in PAL. Barry is asking about Blu-Ray in PAL.

Barry Durex user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 11 Jan 17, 14:02 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Yes, that's right popy.
If they made a PAL DVD, why no PAL Blu-ray?

brians wig user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 11 Jan 17, 17:13 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Why?
Because it's far cheaper to make ONE world-wide master than two.
For some ungodly reason, the manufaturers of USA equipment seem to be so far up their own arrogant arses as to believe that NTSC is the only format needed and they rarely create machines capable of playing back anything but NTSC.
Apart from the very early DVD players, European machines have always been able to play NTSC (you could have them chipped if they didn't) and I think that's the reasoning behind it all now: the Europeans can play NTSC so we can be cheap bastards and only make one master.
It doesn't seem to matter that PAL is a far superior format in every respect to NTSC resulting in 3/4 of the world who use PAL having to suffer shite picture transfers just so the fucking yank manufacturers don't have to bother programming THEIR equipment to play PAL.

I must say though, that whatever process QPL are using now to transfer their PAL masters to 60i for BD release, is doing a cracking job.

Barry Durex user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 11 Jan 17, 17:47 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

If that's really the answer then I don't understand why they released both a PAL and NTSC DVD.

ANAGRAMER user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 12 Jan 17, 00:59 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Erm, excuse my ignorance, how do they differ; PAL and NTSC?


Barry Durex user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 12 Jan 17, 03:55 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

They run at different frame rates and resolution.
The live aid set was recorded in PAL, it is native to the UK.
PAL is 50Hz, NTSC 60Hz


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Posted: 12 Jan 17, 11:23 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Barry Durex wrote:

They run at different frame rates and resolution.
The live aid set was recorded in PAL, it is native to the UK.
PAL is 50Hz, NTSC 60Hz


Plus PAL is bottom field first, whereas NTSC is top field first (except for the 2003 Wembley '86 PAL DVD - for some reason that's using the wrong field order!)

@Brians Wig: Their current PAL -> NTSC conversions are quite good for the SD Blu-ray stuff. Even if it's completely unnecessary.

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Posted: 13 Jan 17, 03:30 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Barry Durex wrote:

If that's really the answer then I don't understand why they released both a PAL and NTSC DVD.


Maybe they came out at a time when BD wasn't so big in Europe and DVD sales would massively outsell the new format.

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Posted: 13 Jan 17, 03:35 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Nitroboy wrote:

Barry Durex wrote:

They run at different frame rates and resolution.
The live aid set was recorded in PAL, it is native to the UK.
PAL is 50Hz, NTSC 60Hz


Plus PAL is bottom field first, whereas NTSC is top field first (except for the 2003 Wembley '86 PAL DVD - for some reason that's using the wrong field order!)

@Brians Wig: Their current PAL -> NTSC conversions are quite good for the SD Blu-ray stuff. Even if it's completely unnecessary.


I see this too often these days: it must be an issue of no one ever using an old fashioned CRT monitor to check anything!
Half the videos on Rogers "The Lot" are the wrong field order.

The most important thing with PAL & NTSC though is the resolution.
PAL is FAR superior: that's why it irks me when they take a great picture and downgrade it to a lower res with dodgy smeary colours and picture because they've also had to "make up" 5 frames a second that didn't previously exist.

It's all down to the frequency at which the US and European electric systems work at.

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Posted: 13 Jan 17, 04:43 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Take a look at some of the extras on the FM tribute blu ray. The fan photos for example look better on the DVD release.

Nitroboy user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 13 Jan 17, 09:08 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

brians wig wrote:

Nitroboy wrote:

Barry Durex wrote:

They run at different frame rates and resolution.
The live aid set was recorded in PAL, it is native to the UK.
PAL is 50Hz, NTSC 60Hz


Plus PAL is bottom field first, whereas NTSC is top field first (except for the 2003 Wembley '86 PAL DVD - for some reason that's using the wrong field order!)

@Brians Wig: Their current PAL -> NTSC conversions are quite good for the SD Blu-ray stuff. Even if it's completely unnecessary.


I see this too often these days: it must be an issue of no one ever using an old fashioned CRT monitor to check anything!
Half the videos on Rogers "The Lot" are the wrong field order.

The most important thing with PAL & NTSC though is the resolution.
PAL is FAR superior: that's why it irks me when they take a great picture and downgrade it to a lower res with dodgy smeary colours and picture because they've also had to "make up" 5 frames a second that didn't previously exist.

It's all down to the frequency at which the US and European electric systems work at.


CRTs were still very much a thing back in 2003 around Wembley's DVD release.
As for the PAL vs. NTSC resolution: It's not really a problem when SD Blu-ray stuff is 1080p anyway. Same resolution for either of them :)

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Posted: 17 Feb 17, 06:01 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

It might be the same resolution, but it's the unnecessary frame rate conversion that's a issue for me and some others. Like I said at the start of the thread, the PAL DVD of Live Aid is superior to the blu-ray SD in my eyes. So it is a problem.

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Posted: 17 Feb 17, 15:37 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



Barry Durex wrote: It might be the same resolution, but it's the unnecessary frame rate conversion that's a issue for me and some others. Like I said at the start of the thread, the PAL DVD of Live Aid is superior to the blu-ray SD in my eyes. So it is a problem.


It's not even that. If it was Blu-ray SD, it would be H.264 1080p (upscaled). But it's not, it's just the NTSC DVD file slapped onto the Blu-ray disc.

My point: For Live Aid, the PAL DVD is the best :P

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Posted: 17 Feb 17, 17:26 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Blu-ray players automatically upscale low res (DVD) video to 1080p anyway. An upscaled unconverted video isn't an issue in this respect, which is the point in my first post. Why no PAL Blu-ray if there was PAL DVD?

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Posted: 18 Feb 17, 17:44 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



Barry Durex wrote: Blu-ray players automatically upscale low res (DVD) video to 1080p anyway. An upscaled unconverted video isn't an issue in this respect, which is the point in my first post. Why no PAL Blu-ray if there was PAL DVD?


1) Yes, a lot of them do. However, on-the-fly upscaling like that will almost always be inferior.
2) Indeed, it would seem odd. Possibly because Blu-ray was still very new at the time. They used a very obscure codec called VC-1 for the Montreal part. It's really odd altogether.

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Posted: 19 Feb 17, 03:49 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

At least Montreal has been left in it's native 24p.

Costa86 user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 23 Feb 17, 11:05 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Small question - not related to this post, but not sure it merits its own thread. Apart from Montreal 1981 and Budapest 1986, is there anything else which could potentially be released in 1080p (i.e. shot on 35mm film)?

 Also, is there any chance Montreal and Budapest could be released in 4k? The film quality should go above even 4k

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Posted: 23 Feb 17, 11:36 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



Costa86 wrote: Small question - not related to this post, but not sure it merits its own thread. Apart from Montreal 1981 and Budapest 1986, is there anything else which could potentially be released in 1080p (i.e. shot on 35mm film)?

 Also, is there any chance Montreal and Budapest could be released in 4k? The film quality should go above even 4k


All of Bob Harris's filming could be released in 1080p, I'm not sure what mm it is though, if I had to guess it would be either 16mm, could be wrong through. Look at some of the interviews on the 'From Rags To Rhapsody' documentary from 2015, they look fantastic! 

Although over the years something I've never understood is that some of the Bob Harris scrips have been shown in black and white but some are in colour, why would they edit it like that? :/

-Chin


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