Forums > Queen - General Discussion > clarification of Thor Arnold's role in Freddie's life

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noorie user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 18 Nov 17, 18:14 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Thor, next time you come to Canada, have a coffee with me! I'd be truly honoured!

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Posted: 18 Nov 17, 19:13 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

noorie,
Thanks for the invitation, Vancouver is a beautiful city. Coffee with you sounds great. Not sure when I can get there but
I will let you know.

The Squirrelly One user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 18 Nov 17, 22:08 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Hello all, just thought I'd share this with you.

It's been a few years since I have last read Jim's book and having known his family personally, it makes it a little harder to get through but seeing as Nov 24th is coming up, I decided to pick it up again. I just thought I'd share a moment in it that got me choked up.

Toward the end of his life, Freddie spent nearly all his time at home. Jim mentions a special evening where he and Freddie were cuddled up watching a movie and the lovers on the screen turn to each other and say "We'll always be together". Just then, Freddie turned to Jim and said "We'll always be together, won't we?" And Jim said he felt a lump in his throat because as much as he wished it to be true, deep down he knew Freddie didnt have much longer. He held him tighter and they kept watching the movie. That was shortly before Freddie was bedridden. And another sweet moment after Freddie was bedridden, when he told Jim that he would like to see his beloved paintings. Jim carried him downstairs and switched the lights on over the artwork one by one and Freddie got to sit there and take in the beauty one last time.

I'll never understand why so many 'fans' who never even knew Jim personally hate him so much. He never did anything to Freddie but take care of him. He never sold him out, used him or lied about him. People take offense to his book, but they fail to realise Mr.Freestone also wrote some very detailed books on Freddie's personal life that included some rather "R-rated" material. I'm not sure why one is knocked while the other is praised. I think both men were kind and both were honest in their books.

Jim's is a book that really gets to your emotions at the end. If you're looking for detailed information on Queen music or tour dates, it's not for you. But if you're interested in seeing what Freddie was like from the mid 1980s on, I do recommend it. The end is very hard to read, but it's honest and I can't help but feel sad for Joe, Jim and Peter. All 3 had the sweetest hearts for caring for him as well as they did.

Thor do any of your friends do anything in his memory every year or when you guys get together? A drink in his memory, perhaps? I think I'll have a nice drink on the 24th and enjoy a Queen record or 2.

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Posted: 19 Nov 17, 01:02 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I'm inclined to agree Squirrely.

The other thing is that Jim was faced with his own HIV positive diagnosis. Life doesn't go on forever, but maybe it took Jim's awareness of that to get it done, while others have done nothing in this respect.

I think people were suspicious of Jim because Freddie had friends and lovers who took advantage of his generosity. Peter Freestone escaped that scrutiny because he was working for Freddie and it was long established.

Everyone has the right to write their own book of their experiences in life, and this was what Jim was doing. Yes he'd make money from it, but it's obvious that his heart went into it. It also helped me to understand what happened at the end, because I'm one of those people who is helped by knowing, and if nothing else I was able to see that Freddie had great care from Joe, Jim and Phoebe.

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Posted: 19 Nov 17, 05:24 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Hey SmokeyQ and Squirrely,
Such an inspiring conversation you've presented. It makes me a little sorry that I didn't know Jim Hutton better while I
had the chance.

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Posted: 19 Nov 17, 09:57 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Reading your thoughts about Jim's book, I also recall some sad moments in book.
The saddest moment for me was when the two of them together cried after an argument in Germany and Freddie asked Jim "what are you going to do when I die?"Jim shaved his mustache afterwards.
Another touching moment was when Jim set the decorative lights on another magnolia tree a few days before his death.Until then, he didn't want that, because he didn't want place to look like a fairy grotto.
I think that many fans around the world hate Jim because he was not a famous person in the world of music, film, etc., he was barber and they think he was with him for money and benefits.
I also think that they hates him because he has destroyed many of the illusions that they had about Mary as Freddie's eternal love and the most important person in his life. That was far from the truth.
I think Jim didn't publish book for money, but he wanted to tell their story to the whole world, so that everyone knows how much they loved each other,that he was the one who Freddie loved,not Mary.
I just wanted to say that, sorry for my intrusion.

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Posted: 19 Nov 17, 11:36 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

'the one who Freddie loved, not Mary" is probably an oversimplification.

Not to get at you and not to attempt to bi-wash Freddie.

I just suspect the emotions involved all round were a lot more complex than that.


Martin
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Posted: 19 Nov 17, 11:45 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Invisible Woman - yes I think Jim took a big risk in getting that book out when he did, the world wasn't ready just then.

I tend to agree with everything you say though I do get the impression that Freddie also loved Mary. Not necessarily romantic, heterosexual love, but some kind of soul mate. In fact, interestingly I saw an interview recently of him when he was younger, much shyer, and I noticed identical mannerisms to what I saw in Mary when she addressed people outside Garden Lodge once. I think she is definitely someone who reflects an aspect of Freddie.

And I think Jim was loved too, but I imagine their relationship was still growing, and sadly cut down. What they went through together would have bonded them in a similar way to Freddie and Mary I imagine, and of course there was the romantic element there.

But what do I know, lol, rambling here on a sunday morning :-)

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Posted: 19 Nov 17, 11:52 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

@Thor, re Jim, how were you to know how things would pan out? But I understand what you mean when looking back on it all. :-)


@Squirrely and Invisible Woman, I never got the impression Jim was hated here in the UK. I got the impression that he got a lot of comfort from the fans and visiting the fan club. There were comments after his book, but I didn't get the impression they were from everyone, there were still many who felt his motives were sound.

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Posted: 19 Nov 17, 11:53 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote





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Posted: 19 Nov 17, 11:55 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

rambling and making mistakes with my post, I'll go away now, lol

Invisible Woman user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 19 Nov 17, 13:00 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Martin and Smoky

When I said ''the one who Freddie loved, not Mary" I was thinking of love between a lovers, a partners, I didn't think of some other kind of love.
I think everyone will agree that friendship and love for a lover is not the same thing.
For two people to be lovers doesn't mean that sex is the only thing that connects them.Yes,sex is important but not the most important. There are also feelings.
In his book, Jim said that they stopped having sex when it became too exhausting for Freddie.
Instead, they had their sessions of kissing and hugging.
They still felt love in their hearts for each other like lovers although they didn't have sex anymore.
That is the difference, friendly love is something completely different.
I hope that now is more clear why I wrote it in my previous post.

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Posted: 19 Nov 17, 16:09 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Hi Noorie,

Yes, we're in Hamilton! The nature is stunningly beautiful here, I love all our forests and waterfalls. Niagara-on-the-Lake is a place we always drive to when it becomes warm after a winter season. The view on the lake is just great there.
I really hope to get to Vancouver some day, I've heard from many people how gorgeous it is.


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Posted: 19 Nov 17, 16:13 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote


Hi Rainbow,

It is a great story, thanks a lot! Makes me appreciate Canada even more.

Martin Packer user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 19 Nov 17, 16:51 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Thanks Invisible Woman; We agree.


Martin
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Posted: 19 Nov 17, 18:29 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

All the persons I did interviews, from Roger Taylor to Mack, said the same. Jim was a good man.

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Posted: 19 Nov 17, 18:52 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I've been interested in the conversation started by Squirrely Woman and Smoky Quartz. I, too, read Jim's book. I came away thinking it was truly a love story and what a blessing it was for both men to share their lives, even for such a relatively short time. I've never understood the ugliness expressed in so many places against Jim, Mary and others who were an important part of Freddie's life. We will never know the true relationship he had with any of these people because he's not here to defend them, nor do I think he would have engaged in such a defense. It's nobody's business who he loved, or why. I think he had something special with Mary that few people experience or understand, but in the end, that's my projection, not his. Same with Jim. I'm just glad he had people in his life who allowed him to step away from "Freddie Mercury" and be himself.

The ending of both Jim and Phoebe's books are very painful to read, but illustrate the love surrounding Freddie as he approached death. If a death can be good, then I think his was because he was surrounded by a family of his choosing, and they clearly loved him. Many people are not given that gift.

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Posted: 19 Nov 17, 22:17 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Katydyd5,

So eloquently written. I agree. I haven't read Jim's book, but maybe I should. These conversations about Jim and Mary have been very interesting. The fact that we wonder who loved Freddie more, or who did he love more still bring me to the same positive conclusion...He had great friendship, warmth, and love in his life, and that is a comforting thought.

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Posted: 19 Nov 17, 22:51 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

On a different Mary subject...I just read today that fans are upset with Mary because she removed all graffiti and signs from the Garden Lodge wall and that it has been repainted with anti-graffiti paint. She also put Plexiglass over the formerly green door with warning signs that people can be reported to the police ( I assume for defacing the property). I know there are two sides to this story, and that the Mary detractors will hate her for this, and the Mary supporters will understand.

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Posted: 19 Nov 17, 23:08 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I am assuming the media are kicking off cos it's his death anniversary this week. But she actually did this months ago; they're a bit slow...

I get it, it's her house to do what she wants with and the fans probably get a bit annoying at times...but she has also requested the wall is blurred out on Street View, which is kind of weird. It's just...a wall from which you cannot see into her property.

Hide that wall Mary...don't let people see that precious wall! -_-