Forums > Personal > illegal copying

forum rss feed
Author

Queenleaf user not visiting Queenzone.com

Royalty: 1381 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 29 Dec 03, 14:22 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I was just wondering how all you guys feel about illegal downloading of songs, copying of sheet music, etc. This is one of those subjects which I would probably not want to post in myself so I won't comment... but I was just wondering about everyone else's views.


Madam, you have between your legs an instrument capable of giving pleasure to thousands and all you can do is scratch it.

-Sir Thomas Beecham to a lady cellist
eggy user not visiting Queenzone.com

Deity: 3358 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 29 Dec 03, 14:37 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

lol.
If you don't want to comment, why the hell should anyone else amuse you.

Guy user not visiting Queenzone.com

Bohemian: 803 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 29 Dec 03, 14:43 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Good point eggy, but I'll still comment ;)

I've never downloaded any Queen song that I don't own and that had been released officially... In fact, I don't own most of the albums, which leaves me not-knowing most of the songs (but I still hear them on bootlegs).

About other artists, I do download a song or two, but never a whole album. Sometimes I just don't feel like spending $20 on an album that only has 2 songs I want.

I think it's very important to keep copyrights safe, and I speak as someone who used to download 10 computer games every week (I stopped that as I changed my views).


"You'll never find rainbows if you're looking down."  -Charlie Chaplin
Penis - Vagina user not visiting Queenzone.com

Deity: 4230 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 29 Dec 03, 15:12 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Argument 1 - I pay for everything I download. $50 a month for a cable internet connection. And that's even with owning my own modem.

There's the 34.95 regular fee (which used to be 29.95) plus a $10 fee for NOT having their TV service, and $5 or so for who knows what.. Cox has stopped itemizing their bills here.. it's just a flat $49.95

So, let Cox pay the artists. I'm paying enough already ;)

Argument 2 - I feel if someone buys a CD it becomes their property and they can share it with anyone they wish to, including everyone who has an internet connection if they so choose. As long as they aren't charging for it, they aren't profiting from the artist's work. This is hard to accept I know.. because the artist can lose revenue for people downloading rather than buying.. but lots of things in life are unfair. And true fans will always want to buy the CD to have an original copy with all artwork.

Argument 3 - New CDs are too expensive. Last month I paid $15.99 plus tax (total $17) for "Hot Space" at 'Best Buy' because I needed a replacement
after 12 years. This is a catalog title. Remastered over 12 years ago. It should sell for $8.99 or so IMO. So record companies need to change a few things to balance out their losses.. or is it that fans are having to pay more to cover the losses? If so, that's not the way to go. Volume dear.. Volume.

Argument 3- As Stone Cold Crazy's signature says, royalties are not lost for something that isn't being sold in the first place. Bonus tracks are a good example. Let's say an artists has a new album out. In Japan, they get 2 bonus tracks. That's unfair to other markets. An American who buys the American version and doesn't get these bonus tracks has every right to download them far as I'm concerned. They've already paid for the album. This is another example of record companies/artists screwing people. If something's going to be released and there's room for it on the CD, fucking put it there in ALL countries. Stop the favoritism!

And now for my personal policy- I generally only download stuff that fits in argument 3. Occasionally I'll download an album from a newsgroup (much better than file-sharing programs btw.. people care about quality and check for glitches before uploading as a general rule) to see if I like something.. if I do, I buy the CD.


Queenleaf user not visiting Queenzone.com

Royalty: 1381 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 29 Dec 03, 15:26 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Well if you must know I was wondering but I'm not quite sure on my own convictions. I didn't want to get in a big fight with people who thought differently when I have not finished thinking it through myself.

As far as used cds I never buy new ones if i can help it (while saying this let me say I have bought every queen cd I own new)

thank you for replying deacon fan, that was very nicely layed out.


Madam, you have between your legs an instrument capable of giving pleasure to thousands and all you can do is scratch it.

-Sir Thomas Beecham to a lady cellist
Penis - Vagina user not visiting Queenzone.com

Deity: 4230 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 29 Dec 03, 15:44 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Used CDs are another good point... now selling them should be illegal too, right? That's someone profiting from artists work and they get no royalties! But it's okay because the CD has already been paid for. Well, in most cases, someone paid for the CDs which MP3s are shared from too, and they aren't making a new profit by sharing those.

It's those bloody CD resellers the industry should be going after!

LOL

I just think there's a balance which would keep everyone happy. I truly believe people would buy more discs if the prices were more reasonable. It's up to the industry to figure such things out.. a balance of price, advertising, free samples.

Downloading can never be stopped.. it's just a fact of life now. They can shut down all the sharing services, sue people, whatever.. there will still be people sharing between each other, in Hubs, newsgroups, etc.

And this so-called copy protected stuff is a joke. People will always find a way around such things. All the companies are doing is making people hate them even more. And causing people to download. If you buy a CD and can't easily copy it, you might end up downloading copies for yourself.

I'll shut up for now ;)

Penis - Vagina user not visiting Queenzone.com

Deity: 4230 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 29 Dec 03, 15:48 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

And furthermore, people like Metallica... if they're really hurting in the pocketbook, it's probably because the lazy fucks wait 10 years between albums, not because some fans are downloading their OLD stuff.

Queenleaf user not visiting Queenzone.com

Royalty: 1381 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 29 Dec 03, 15:55 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

you have a lot to say on the subject lol


Madam, you have between your legs an instrument capable of giving pleasure to thousands and all you can do is scratch it.

-Sir Thomas Beecham to a lady cellist
Penis - Vagina user not visiting Queenzone.com

Deity: 4230 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 29 Dec 03, 15:59 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

It's a fun topic Queenleaf :)

I should take a break. I'm really charged up today and I don't want to make any enemies. (Other than record companies and Metallica) LOL

I'll be back in a few hours. I love you all so very very much!



Queenleaf user not visiting Queenzone.com

Royalty: 1381 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 29 Dec 03, 16:08 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

thank you deacon fan! You are charged up! my dad burns cds and my mom thinks that's so unfair when they are copyrighted. Oh well.


Madam, you have between your legs an instrument capable of giving pleasure to thousands and all you can do is scratch it.

-Sir Thomas Beecham to a lady cellist
Maz user not visiting Queenzone.com

Deity: 5799 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 29 Dec 03, 16:26 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Allow me to paraphrase a bit-
"Argument 1 - I pay for internet service"

This makes no sense at all.


"Argument 2 - It's my property"

True, the physical CD is, but not the intellectual property. Until you have created something on your own, then had it stolen without any due compensation, you won't know how much that hurts. I assume that all intellectual property, whether computer software, sheet music, or textbooks are up for grabs with you?

The idea that "lots of things in life are unfair" is just a poor justification to do what you want and achieves nothing.


"Argument 3 - CDs are expensive"

The glory about music is that while it is sure neat to have, it is not necessary for survival. If you were Jean Valjean and needed some bread, then perhaps stealing it would be justified. But stealing music, certainly an extravangace to begin with, is just lazy.

Second, there are new download services that allow you to legally purchase songs for a minor charge (generally a song for a buck or less). They will only grow over the next year, making this argument even more usless.


"Argument 4 - They are not losing anything if they don't release it"

This is true, but only to an extent. I certainly agree that what hasn't been released, such as concert boots, is open to be downloaded, but your example of Japanese releases is off.

Since it is usually cheaper to import CDs rather than buy domestic releases in Japan, record companies have to compete. It would do Toshiba EMI (Queen's Japanese record company) little good to release the exact same disc for more money if a Japanese consumer just imports the Hollywood records version for less. Extra tracks are used as a means to entice Japanese customers to buy Japanese products.




To answer the question in a short phrase: Downloading music because you cannot be arsed to go to the store and buy it is lazy and nothing short of stealing. You all assume that musicians are rich and can easily absorb the loss of income; you are wrong.


DJ's the man we love the most
Penis - Vagina user not visiting Queenzone.com

Deity: 4230 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 29 Dec 03, 18:02 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

"Argument 1 - I pay for internet service"

>This makes no sense at all.

Actually it does. I'm implying the obvious.. consumers are being ripped off by the entertainment industry as a whole. I'm suggesting that cable providers chip in to help these poor, unfortunate record companies and musicians pay their bills. Cable TV and satellite services are ridiculously overpriced for one thing. I pay $55 a month for 150 satellite channels myself. 99% of which are paid for by commercials.. 15 minutes of every hour on average. Then Dish Network turns around and sells their own advertising and promotes their own PPV services on those channels as well. Same with cable. While it's true that nobody is forcing me to buy their service, I'm merely stating that things are too expensive for what you get. I've strayed a bit from the topic of music.. but think about who owns the record companies.. the same people (like Warner, Sony, Disney.. whoever owns them all now.. I think there's like 3 big companies left). They charge too much to cable and satellite providers, who in turn sell additional advertising AND charge consumers too much.


"Argument 2 - It's my property"

>True, the physical CD is, but not the intellectual property. Until you have created something on your own, then had it stolen without any due compensation, you >won't know how much that hurts. I assume that all intellectual property, whether computer software, sheet music, or textbooks are up for grabs with you?

This issue is endlessly debatable. I think artists have to accept the fact that once they've sold something, it belongs to the buyer. Not to profit from mind you.. that is clearly a violation of rights. Let's say I want to make 1000 cheeseburgers and give them away free. Am I ripping off McDonald's by doing so? If I make an exact copy of a McDonald's cheeseburger and give it away free, that's my right. I don't care how much the formulation is the intellectual property of McDonald's. As long as I don't call it a Big Mac and charge for it, they have no claim. Same with music. If I buy the damn CD and want to give copies to people free, I have every right to and I'd go to court on that!
"Argument 3 - CDs are expensive"

>The glory about music is that while it is sure neat to have, it is not necessary for survival. If you were Jean Valjean and needed some bread, then perhaps stealing it >would be justified. But stealing music, certainly an extravangace to begin with, is just lazy.

Great. Maybe if the industry continues as they are, eventually NOBODY will make that choice to buy. That's what I meant by a balance to keep everyone happy. And you can't steal something that's already been paid for.

>Second, there are new download services that allow you to legally purchase songs for a minor charge (generally a song for a buck or less). They will only grow over >the next year, making this argument even more usless.

There's nothing wrong with paying for a particular download as far as I'm concerned. The quality of such files is not that of an original CD, so I still think people would go out and physically buy a disc were it to be more reasonably priced. As for the cost of the disc, case and artwork.. mere pennies. I love original CDs myself. I've bought thousands of them! And I own them :)


"Argument 4 - They are not losing anything if they don't release it"

>This is true, but only to an extent. I certainly agree that what hasn't been released, such as concert boots, is open to be downloaded, but your example of Japanese >releases is off.

>Since it is usually cheaper to import CDs rather than buy domestic releases in Japan, record companies have to compete. It would do Toshiba EMI (Queen's >Japanese record company) little good to release the exact same disc for more money if a Japanese consumer just imports the Hollywood records version for less. >Extra tracks are used as a means to entice Japanese customers to buy Japanese products.

I have no k

Flashman user not visiting Queenzone.com
Flashman
Deity: 4523 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 29 Dec 03, 18:18 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Excuse me while I make a mental note concerning all those who admit to breaking the law...

*Makes mental note*

There. Carry on.

Crikey, I've got terrible wind. Must be all that Champagne.

*Makes mental note*


FLASHMAN STRIKES AGAIN!



Paul Rodgers is not the best thing since fried Fred.
Penis - Vagina user not visiting Queenzone.com

Deity: 4230 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 29 Dec 03, 18:22 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

And I keep forgetting to mention this, since it was probably the original intention of the post..

As for making your own copies for back-up, or use in multiple places, or to add extra stuff as I do.. by all means, do it to your heart's content. You bought it, do with it what you want so long as you don't sell copies for profit.

Penis - Vagina user not visiting Queenzone.com

Deity: 4230 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 29 Dec 03, 18:32 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Here's a look at the additonal tracks I added to my "The Works" copy:

http://members.cox.net/donniedarko/worksback.gif

Tracks 13 thru 17 are my own productions btw. I got rid of that montage at the end of Break Free with some clever editing and a fade, recreated the single mix myself, did an additional shorter single mix, and an edit of Radio Ga Ga just for fun. And the instrumental of Break Free is a little longer than the released version, as I used the full-length intro from the single mix. The karaoke version fades in too fast.

Brandon user not visiting Queenzone.com

Royalty: 1803 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 29 Dec 03, 22:16 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

"Argument 2 - It's my property"

>True, the physical CD is, but not the intellectual property. Until you have created something on your own, then had it stolen without any due compensation, you >won't know how much that hurts. I assume that all intellectual property, whether computer software, sheet music, or textbooks are up for grabs with you?

This issue is endlessly debatable. I think artists have to accept the fact that once they've sold something, it belongs to the buyer. Not to profit from mind you.. that is clearly a violation of rights. Let's say I want to make 1000 cheeseburgers and give them away free. Am I ripping off McDonald's by doing so? If I make an exact copy of a McDonald's cheeseburger and give it away free, that's my right. I don't care how much the formulation is the intellectual property of McDonald's. As long as I don't call it a Big Mac and charge for it, they have no claim. Same with music. If I buy the damn CD and want to give copies to people free, I have every right to and I'd go to court on that!

--Pathetic. Not even close to being debatable. The rules are right there in the book that accompanies the CD. I would LOVE to see you try that argument in court. You'd be laughed right into cell block D. The intellectual property on the CD belongs to the artist plain and simple.
By the way, Zeni's argument totally devistated your puny attempt to justify illegal and potentially unethical behaviour.


"i don't give a fuck about it. i download things for free. and as for sheet music, if it's normal sized on the page, i print it out. big whoop! who cares?
i hate celebrities who are in the business just for the money and not because they love doing what they do for a living. then they complain when they can only afford a $3,000,000,000 house instead of a $4,000,000,000 house! BOO FUCKING HOO PEOPLE!!! EVERYBODY SHOULD BE ABLE TO LISTEN TO OR WATCH WHAT THEY WANT TO FOR FREE!!!
Even if there wasn't a such thing as Kazaa or other downloading programs, people would still find a way to get music for free! cd burner.... they could borrow their friend's cd and copy it onto their computer... see, free? cept it's uploading... anyway, you get the point..."
--Again, pathetic. It's all fine and dandy until someone steals from you. Transcribing sheet music is obviously very difficult and people won't do it if they cannot profit from it - bottom line. And there is a huge difference in sharing a CD with a couple of friends around the block and potential millions around the world.

Oh, and as for selling used CDs and free downloads, that's really just grasping for straws, isn't it?

Penis - Vagina user not visiting Queenzone.com

Deity: 4230 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 29 Dec 03, 22:41 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Meanwhile, Best Buy had a copy of "Preordained" right there in the bin with my $17 Hot Space disc.

That's the kind of shit these laws were designed to stop.. not to keep people who love music and who do support artists from sharing.

I stand by everything I've said and that's the end of the discussion for me. :)

Mr.Jingles user not visiting Queenzone.com
Mr.Jingles
Deity: 10532 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 29 Dec 03, 22:54 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I like to buy CDs as long as the album is worth buying, and not just 2 or 3 good songs, and the rest are crap.
Sometimes I also buy songs from Itunes, or (the new) Napster.

I have to admit that I download songs from Kazaa by artists that I find quite annoying, and who already have way too much money.
For instance I think that Madonna, Sting, & Prince are a bunch of arrogant pricks who are full of themselves. I have to admit I enjoy some of their songs, but I really don't feel like making them richer than they are already.

God bless Kazaa!

P.S. Did anyone watch that South Park episode about downloading mp3s, where Lars Ulrich was crying because he couldn't afford a new pool in his mansion, and Britney couldn't afford a new private jet.


[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Brandon wrote: [/QUOTENAME]... and now the "best you can offer is Mr. Jingles? HA! He's... just pathetic.[/QUOTE]
Brandon user not visiting Queenzone.com

Royalty: 1803 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 29 Dec 03, 22:54 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Actually, I think Zeni effectviely ended the discussion for you. *LOL*

Plengel user not visiting Queenzone.com

Deity: 2119 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 30 Dec 03, 07:33 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I have totally no problem with downloading or copying CD's. I buy CD's in stores also, 1 or maybe 2 per month. The fact is I am, like Freddie used to say, a "musical prostitute". I like very different styles of music, so if I had to buy all the music I like, I'd be a very poor man. Of course all the Queen Albums I have original.

So I don't see any problem with me downloading and copying CD's


You've never seen nothing like it, no never in your life. Like going up to heaven and then coming back alive.





http://plengelqueentrader.tripod.com