Forums > Queen - Serious Discussion > Freddie's Cliché

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Sebastian user not visiting Queenzone.com
Sebastian
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Posted: 15 Jan 04, 11:47 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Hi everyone. I'm doing a research on Freddie's cliché. For those who don't know what I'm talking about, I mean the I > V > vi with step-wise descending bass. In more exact words, it corresponds to any of the following progressions:

C > G/B > Am
C# > Ab/C > Bbm
D > A/C# > Bm
Eb > Bb/D > Cm
E > B/Eb > Dbm
F > C/E > Dm
F# > C#/F > Ebm
G > D/F# > Em
Ab > Eb/G > Fm
A > E/Ab > F#m
Bb > F/A > Gm
B > F#/Bb > Abm

Now, what I'm trying to do is make a list of all Freddie's songs that use this progression at some point. So far I've got this ones, any contribution is welcome:

Bohemian Rhapsody
Fairy Feller's Master Stroke
Good Old Fashioned Lover Boy
Friends Will Be Friends
Innuendo
We Are The Champions
It's A Hard Life
Life Is Real
Keep Passing The Open Windows
Lily Of The Valley
Somebody To Love
The March Of The Black Queen

Also I'd love to learn about the origin of this cliché and possible ways for Freddie to get to know it (so far I've got one suspect: Lennon's 'All You Need Is Love'). Songs that also use this cliché - not written by Freddie - are More Than Words, Save Me, Brighton Rock, Dust In The Wind and Dear Friends. Any contribution on that side is also welcome


John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
Sebastian user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 15 Jan 04, 11:48 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

'Two Of Us', also by my favourite band, is another example


John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
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Posted: 15 Jan 04, 16:03 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The progression in question must be frequently used in classical music, and also in some pop songs prior to Beatles.
Pachelbel's famous "Canon in D" is a close example, even though the bass there follows the root, the step-wise descending voice is also present there.

Sebastian user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 15 Jan 04, 16:59 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

More examples I found from Freddie: Bring Back That Leroy Brown, Nevermore, Made In Heaven

4 more from Brian: Too Much Love, Who Wants To Live Forever, Is This The World We Created, Back To The Light

1 from Roger - Days Of Our Lives

1 from Roger, in reversed form - Heaven For Everyone

2 from John - You're My Best Friend, You And I


John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
geeksandgeeks user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 15 Jan 04, 20:21 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

That what? The what???

every time we talk about this, I get completely freaked out.


God wants you to send me some money.



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Whatinthewhatthe? user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 15 Jan 04, 21:00 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Don't forget the "Aeolian cadence" in the Beatles' Not A Second Time. I always found that quite fascinating! :-)

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Posted: 15 Jan 04, 23:32 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

"Also I'd love to learn about the origin of this cliché and possible ways for Freddie to get to know it (so far I've got one suspect: Lennon's 'All You Need Is Love')"


How could you ever find out where this progression started. it might be possible to find out where it was first used in modern music (1950-now)
But since there have been instruments i'm sure someone used this progression, so it's kind of useless to try and find it out.

Even more useless is finding out where Freddie heard this, he liked the Beatles, but that doesn't mean he heard it in All You Need for the first time, or that he used it often because it was in that song...right?


"On the first day Pim & Niek created a heavenly occupation. Pim & Niek blessed it and named it 'Loosch'."



(Genesis 1:1)
Sebastian user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 16 Jan 04, 06:40 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

that's why I said POSSIBLE ways


John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
FriedChicken user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 16 Jan 04, 09:27 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Save Me and White Queen also has this progression


It's possible he noticed it for the first time in:

Beatles - Let it Be (F > C/E > Dm)
The Who - Dr. Jimmy (F > C/E > Dm)
The Stones - She Smiled Sweetly (F > C/E > Dm)
The Stones - Angie (F > C/E > Dm)
Elvis Presley - Always on my Mind (G > D/F# > Em)

And what about Amazing Grace, that song also has this progression, and we all know how much Freddie loved this song, so perhaps he picked it up when hearing Amazing Grace









"On the first day Pim & Niek created a heavenly occupation. Pim & Niek blessed it and named it 'Loosch'."



(Genesis 1:1)
Sebastian user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 16 Jan 04, 10:04 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Thanks, I hadn't thought about Angie


John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
Penetration_Guru user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 16 Jan 04, 12:06 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sorry, Sebastien, I think you're going to fail for once - that progression is so common (and so natural for any guitarist going from G to Em or C to Am), that you'll just get snowed under with examples.

Mind you, combine it with Brian's AKOM/WWRY/HTF guitar riff, and you could construct the "ultimate" Queen-a-like song. Question is, who would you get to sing it?

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Posted: 16 Jan 04, 12:09 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

And ofcourse Brian's cliched, A > D/A riff,

Johns high melodic basslines


"On the first day Pim & Niek created a heavenly occupation. Pim & Niek blessed it and named it 'Loosch'."



(Genesis 1:1)
Sebastian user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 16 Jan 04, 12:34 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

> Sorry, Sebastien, I think you're going to fail for once - that progression is so common...

I'm not failing, I just wanted to know more about the cliché, and I did. So that's not a failure


John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
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Posted: 16 Jan 04, 14:58 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

That's exactly what PG's on about Niek: they're one and the same.


Gullibility and credulity are considered undesirable qualities in every department of human life -- except religion.
FriedChicken user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 16 Jan 04, 15:46 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

ahh yeah....stupid me!

i try to read too fast


"On the first day Pim & Niek created a heavenly occupation. Pim & Niek blessed it and named it 'Loosch'."



(Genesis 1:1)
Penetration_Guru user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 17 Jan 04, 16:52 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I agree fail wasn't the right word, but you know what I mean

The Black Queen user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 17 Jan 04, 17:00 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Wha huh?

I'm lost.

(700th post woooo!)


Freddie about Roger 'Trouser Snake' Taylor:

"A nice guy, but dont ever let him show you his home videos...the dirty little sod."
wstüssyb user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 17 Jan 04, 21:33 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

And I thought Freddie's cliché was the he was gay.


MY GOD spell it write.
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Posted: 18 Jan 04, 03:53 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

"And I thought Freddie's cliché was the he was gay."

LOL ;-)


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Posted: 18 Jan 04, 08:34 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

This isn't a freddie-cliche but a music-cliche. It's used everywhere and sounds nice, and is really good for chord-changes. It's like saying the chord D is a cliche, og playing in 4/4 time is a cliche. It sounds good, and is one of the basics of music.


-Erik-