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Togg user not visiting Queenzone.com
Togg
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Posted: 12 Feb 04, 05:30 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Guys, over in the topic about revamping QZ there is a lot of talk about MODS or no MODS, and the issue of freedom of speech keeps raising its head when we talk about his, well for what it's worth here is my two cents worth...

Freedom of speech is something we in the west and indeed most civilised countries now enjoy, gone are the days of begin beheaded for speaking out against the head of state etc.

However, what freedom of speech doesn't cover is when someone speaks out against someone with inaccurate information which can be proved as slander etc.

So the defence of Freedom of speech basically covers our right to speak out about things we don't agree with, it does not mean you can say anything you like.

Our world must have rules in order for us to manage it, and I feel the web is no different, freedom of speech by all means, but not at the expence of other peoples right to live without being attacked with no form of response.

You may have differing views, but keep in mind if we are to live together there has to be some form of control, on the web and in everyday lives. Without it we desend into anarchy.


"It is better to sit in silence and have people think you're a fool, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt"
YourValentine user is on Queenzone.com
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Posted: 12 Feb 04, 06:14 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Before I answer, let me just remind us all that this is a Queen message board and it should be a hobby to post here and nobody needs it to survive. We all can choose net identities and protect our privacy by not posting any personal information on the board.

Now to the topic - moderation of the message board. You say we have rules in real life about what we can and cannot say, that is true. In fact, we cannot speak out our minds in most important parts of real life at all - just try to tell your boss he is an incompetent dazzler and you learn the limits of your freedom of speech pretty quickly. It's a matter of power and dependency. The question is -do we want to give people the power to tell us what to say on this message board? Rules are all very well but who will set them? What offends some people is just a simple joke for others. For example, I am offended by sexist jokes but I would never ask to forbid them, that's ridiculous in my mind. I never use swear words in public but I defend the right of others to use them and to make sexist jokes. And even if we all could agree on the rules, what about the power? Would we not start an endless dicussion that moderator A deleted the one message but not the other? Would we not suspect favouritism and injustice? This board would not be the same if we had mods. If a topic is in the wrong section, the world won't collapse. If people use the chat section and the Forum Testing section as a private chat room, the world won't collapse, either.

When we consider what we have to gain and what we have to lose, I think we should put up with the few people who abuse the board in various degrees. In the end, it's always the users who make a message board and when we start running to a mod and complain instead of settling our arguments ourselves, the board will definitely not improve. As yet we did not descend into anarchy and I really prefer a certain dose of anarchy to a situation that a moderator decides what I can say or not.

Btw, it's not that NOTHING happens when people abuse the board. Two people are banned from the board and I remember a couple of threads that were deleted in the Personal board (biggest thread ever, spamming) and the mp3 board(spamming). The other day Richard deleted the complete forum testing section. But the messages themselves have always been untouched and it should stay that way.


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Posted: 12 Feb 04, 06:21 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I'm with Barb.




If God intended us to fly, he'd make it easier to get to the airport.
Togg user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 12 Feb 04, 06:28 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Can I just say this is not meant as an agrument for or against MODS here, more to point out and discuss Freedom of Speech as I often see folks assuming it means you can say what you like as that's freedom of speech!


"It is better to sit in silence and have people think you're a fool, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt"
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Posted: 12 Feb 04, 08:05 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

C'mon- everything ALWAYS depends on inteligence and tact... If someone is abusive or whatever- why care...? Just a stupid moron, with an IQ of 20- why lose energy on sth like that...? Only few seconds of your life spent on thinking about some idiot- is he worth it...? Don't think so...(unless you are REALLY bored...)

There are many posts that sometimes annoy me, but amongst them there are also posts about banning someone or not being able to say this or that... Yet I'm trying to ignore them all and don't let the imbecils to spoil my fun... whether they're abusive, rude or just plainly stupid... They're not worth my energy...

And institution of MOD would only divide us even more IMHO...

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Posted: 12 Feb 04, 10:00 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I'm not sure what you're on about, Internet or the real world. In reality, there sure are limits as to what you can say and what you can't say. As Barb mentioned, it isn't wise to scream insults at your boss - most probably that has you lose your job. Same way it's not the wisest thing to swear at a police officer who's writing out a ticket, next thing you know is that you're sued. If someone insults you badly in reality, you are actually able to sue him - so there sure are limits for what you can say and what you're better off leaving unsaid. These limits are different from person to person, but most people have a inbuilt line as to what they say and what they simply shut up about.

As for Internet, that IS different. There's more freedom of speach on the Internet, naturally. People go to forums or chats to be anonymous people and to say whatever they want. Some start argues through Internet for plain fun. There are less limits on the Internet. And, again as Barb mentioned, you don't have to respond to those who insult you, you don't have to do anything. You can simply stand up and leave the computer. Leave the forum. Anything. Your life is rarely depending on the Internet, and if it is you have a serious social problem.

Some forums choose to have moderators who take care of the troublemakers and keep the place "clean", while forums like QZ just admits that this is the Internet, not reality, and that mods actually would bring the place down.




If God intended us to fly, he'd make it easier to get to the airport.
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Posted: 12 Feb 04, 11:52 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote


be a pretty empty board then wouldnt it?

I am with Barb-- and fully want this place to remain MOD free as it has been since i first found it almost 6 yrs ago




i got a way with the boys on my block.. :-)

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Posted: 12 Feb 04, 12:24 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Agree with Iron eagle, no Mods


Mejor yo me hecho una chela, y chance enchufo una chava, chambeando de chafirete, me sobra chupe y pachanga



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Posted: 12 Feb 04, 14:52 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

If mods would rule and be fair, they'd have to remove fatty for insults and lies, Flashy for sexual assault and sexist jokes, a bunch of people for telling untruths in mean jokes about each other, etc. William would naturally go for his evil jokes aimed at newbies...

This place would be SO dead! I suppose these things are what IE meant, because in the homour and the jokes we most often see here, there are insults and untruths flying around everywhere. If a mod removed someone who wrote insults, but then didn't remove fatty, that mod would be accused by someone for not being fair. And then we have it going.




If God intended us to fly, he'd make it easier to get to the airport.
iron eagle user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 12 Feb 04, 16:14 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote


my retort again would be-- it would be quite an empty board now wouldnt it?

alli is a *b*
fuck off zeni
nimmy
fattys stories
flash's stories
the evil cliques
the verbal assultage at baer
some of you are vain and suck
your not a true fan
your mother was a hamster
blonde jokes
homo jokes
racist jokes
gender jokes
TEDs stuff and the verbal assults he got back..

this list could go on and on of things that could be taken as slander or malicious lies...

this place is just like a TV--dont like it change the channel--
in this case--dont read the threads-
the majority of us have been around long enough to know who is who- whos ok whos a jerk--even when they post 'incognito'

what is bad to you--may not be so bad to me---
what is funny to shrek may be slanderous to T_M
where do you draw the line on a board created to be free and open?
you cant
you relie on people being decent to one another
and if they arent and you wouldnt hang with them in real life--why would someone allow their words or actions bother them at all?????

kick the dust off your shoes and call it a happy day with those folks you think are bad....









i got a way with the boys on my block.. :-)

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Posted: 12 Feb 04, 16:18 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Great post Mr. Eagle! :D


"Elton John and I became really good friends. I don't mean 'good friends' in that sense. I just mean we slept together." -Billy Joel
Brandon user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 12 Feb 04, 17:05 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The only kind of moderation we need is someone to take down flood threads nd pointless threads (Thread with one or two words that man absolutely nothing - I'm sure you all kow what I'm talking about.) Otherwise, no moderation. Free speech does not give someone the right to innundate the message board with pointless threads pushing the actuial topics of discussion into oblivion.
But I repeat myself - no thought police. While lying and libel are bad, censorship of thoughts or swearing etc is worse.

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Posted: 12 Feb 04, 17:29 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

If there were constant mods, then jake would've been gone immeaditely! and we wouldn't be able to make fun of him- cos he wouldn't have been here too long. And people like me (stupid, bitchy, annoying, evil- pick your adjective) wouldn't stand a chance cos we'd be kicked off. and we wouldn't have flame wars. and I (or anyone else) wouldn't be able to have fights with anyone. and it wouldn't be fun.

I don't really know what point I'm trying to prove, but i guess i like the lack of you know- structure or intelligence or anthing.


Like c.elegans except bigger and more tasty.
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Posted: 12 Feb 04, 17:42 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

then jake would've been gone immeaditely! and we wouldn't be able to make fun of him- cos he wouldn't have been here too long

that would have sucked lol


I'm caught in between with a fading dream ..........



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Posted: 12 Feb 04, 17:53 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

shouldnt you be studying Brandon??

hmmmph! *G*


i got a way with the boys on my block.. :-)

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Posted: 12 Feb 04, 18:59 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The absolute last thing I want is for this to turn into a board where three or four people control everything, and where you're doomed to the banned list if the word "wife" shows up in one of your posts.


God wants you to send me some money.



"Seven spades doubled, vulnerable, making seven? You BITCH."
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Posted: 12 Feb 04, 20:38 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Evil Cliques IE?!

Where!?

Burn them! :))

*muwahahahha*

Freedom of Speech is everything. The good, bad, and the ugly (incl. slander, unfortunatetly). Either you get the point or not, so I agree with IE.


When you open your heart to a smooth operator...
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Posted: 12 Feb 04, 21:57 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I should be but I can't seem to pull myself from the net these days. Must be the cold weather! Nothing a little Summer R&R won't cure!

iron eagle user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 12 Feb 04, 22:37 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

ok your forgiven... this time

but next time its the gauntlet!


i got a way with the boys on my block.. :-)