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Maz user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 09 Apr 04, 01:15 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

First off, this is not aimed at anyone in particular. It's more in response to a general sentiment I've seen in many different places.

I find it somewhat insulting that the press and public have made such a big deal out of the tenth anniversary of Kurt Cobain's suicide, yet given only a fleeting mention of the tenth anniversary of the Rwandan genocide. I freely admit that Cobain's life and death influenced our culture and society, but it in no way is more important than the murder of 800,000 people in 100 days due to racial and ethnic cleansing.

The Rwandan Genocide represents the myopia of a democracy. While the US probably deserves the most blame, it was not the only democratic nation or institution to stick its head in the sand and ignore this. For those who believe that America should take care of its own first, we did in 1994 and 800,000 people were killed.

If you are not familiar with the Rwandan Genocide, it is not a happy event to study. Simply put the word "Rwanda" into Google's or Yahoo's image search and you'll get an idea of what happened.




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Posted: 09 Apr 04, 02:55 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Hey,

Let me explain to you why the USA never cared about the situation in Rwanda 10 years ago and why they still don't care now...

THERES NO OIL IN RWANDA!






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-fatty- 2850 user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 09 Apr 04, 07:50 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I couldn't agree more. Rwanda has no one to blame but themselves. If they had spent a little more time discovering oil instead of chopping each other up, then America would have come to their aid years ago.

fatty.

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Posted: 09 Apr 04, 14:48 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

"Let me explain to you why the USA never cared about the situation in Rwanda 10 years ago and why they still don't care now...

THERES NO OIL IN RWANDA!"


Of course, the US wasn't the only country to ignore Rwanda. So what was France's, Belgium's, Canada's, England's, and the UN's excuse, just to name a few?


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Panchgani user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 09 Apr 04, 18:14 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The Somalia syndrome - The reward the US got for trying to be dogooder in Somalia was to get their asses kicked by the warlords there. Of course the US and Europe stepped in to save Bosnia when it was not so strategic. I wonder what the difference is between Bosnia and Rwanda?? Anyone? Anyone? Anyway, no country was willing to commit to the thankless and politically risky job of peacekeeping in Rwanda.


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Posted: 09 Apr 04, 19:14 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The New and Improved Zeni wrote:

"Of course, the US wasn't the only country to ignore Rwanda. So what was France's, Belgium's, Canada's, England's, and the UN's excuse, just to name a few?


Dont know about the rest, but the UK's excuse was probably that the US wasn't there.

(Only joking)


"Normally i can't dance to save my life.

But as soon as I step in dog shit, I can moonwalk better than Michael Jackson."
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Posted: 10 Apr 04, 15:28 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Maybe the US should go into Israel, the West Bank and the Gaza strip, and, and using newly invented terrorist detection technology (patent pending), kill off ONLY all the terrorists? Of the innocents left - how many would be Palestinian, and how many would be Israeli's?

But the biggest question would be:

Will I need my toes to count the number of innocent people left?


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Posted: 10 Apr 04, 19:21 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Good topic. But I bet if some pretty girl puts a picture in her profile it will get more replies than this one. What does that tell us about the nature of the world?

I'm asked to feel guilty about a lot of things. Because I'm white, I'm asked to be ashamed of slavery. Because I'm European, I'm asked to be ashamed of the genocide of Native Americans. Because I'm British I'm supposed to feel guilty because the Brits once had an Empire. Because I'm irish protestant, I'm supposed to feel ashamed of the potato famine. Because I'm not jewish, I'm supposed to feel guilty about the Holocaust. I'm supposed to feel guilt about African aids victims. And now I'm supposed to feel guilty about Rwanda. Guess what? I don't feel guilty about anything that I personally had no control over or no ability to influence.

Europeans realized after World War Two that we're ALL two square meals away from barbarism. That's why the European union was created. I'm quite proud of that. Don't ask me to be ashamed for events that occurred before I was born, or for the barbarism of other cultures thousands of miles away.

What I CAN do is try to counter dangerous or hateful propaganda when I see I it. I vote for liberal politicians and parties in the hope that they will instigate a morality-based foreign policy, rather than a totally self-interested one. I vote for those who I think will try to reign in the powers of big corporations and special interest groups. In practical terms, what more should I be expected to do? Political parties and governments wield power. With few exceptions, individuals are powerless to effect change by direct action beyond our own very limited horizons.



"With a population of 1.75 million, Northern Ireland should really be a footballing minnow. Instead, they could be better described as the piranhas of the international game" (FIFA.com)
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Posted: 10 Apr 04, 19:29 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

"Good topic. But I bet if some pretty girl puts a picture in her profile it will get more replies than this one. What does that tell us about the nature of the world?"

Pictures of Rwandan corpses make for poor masterbation material?


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Maz user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 10 Apr 04, 20:48 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

It is a good post by Holly, Matt, but did you read all of it? It does more than simply absolve white Europeans from the world's evils.


I agree with Holly's comments on guilt, but I don't think guilt ought to be what we take from Rwanda. In many ways, assuming guilt for an event is the easy way out and does not change the situation. I think there are many people who look at Rwanda and cringe, wring their hands a bit, shed some crocodile tears, and then forget about it until the next anniversary. What we need to do is learn from Rwanda and investigate how and why it happened in effort to assure that these events don't happen again.

But how can individuals learn about these events and try to vote for those who support a morality-based foreign policy if people avoid the topic altogether? Again, this shouldn't be about assigning guilt, but about learning from history.

In the end, we are two square meals away from barbarism, which makes my post quixotic in nature. Sometime in our future, distant or not, there will be another mass murder because few acted. But I can make a choice to be a barbarian and ignore it, or I can try to affect change. Simply starting this topic and inciting discussion is more than most Americans or Europeans have done so far.


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Posted: 10 Apr 04, 21:18 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

'I vote for liberal politicians and parties in the hope that they will instigate a morality-based foreign policy, rather than a totally self-interested one.'

Well that counts out Labour and the Tories. If you chose another you shouldn't have bothered.


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Posted: 10 Apr 04, 22:22 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Then you obviously read this part, too:
"I vote for liberal politicians and parties in the hope that they will instigate a morality-based foreign policy, rather than a totally self-interested one."

I didn't assume a thing, Matt, and if I pissed you off, then perhaps my comments are hitting a nerve, which is the point. Your initial comment, along with this last post, does not indicate that you support a liberal morality-based foreign policy. Instead, your comments say that we should avoid foreign policy issues altogether until we "fix" the US first.

It just so happens that's kind of what occurred in April 1994. People in the US were "unconcerned" and "generally numb" to the problems in Rwanda, and until we change that short-sightedness, it will happen again. This has nothing to do with being the Big Brother of the world, but instead demonstrates how democracies cannot plead ignorance.

Now, none of this was a personal attack on you, Matt, so evaluate why you think it was.


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Brandon user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 10 Apr 04, 23:24 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Pfffft.
Anyway... Zeni, are you attending this summer's convention? I'd really like the opportunity to meet you.

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Posted: 10 Apr 04, 23:56 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

You are impossible to discuss anything with, Matt. No, I didn't throw in the "Race Card;" it's what Holly himself basically said in that paragraph. I essentially paraphased it into one snippet.

But it should be noted that instead of trying to discuss this issue rationally and creating a dialogue on the subject, you would rather claim I'm attacking you and level a quick personal jab at me. If you think your beliefs cannot withstand debate, then perhaps you should re-evaluate them. Quick trying to confuse the issue and claiming I'm picking on you.

And Brandon-
I'm afraid I won't be there this summer. I'll be moving cross-country soon and spare change is non-existent for now. As for meeting me, I think you are one of the few willing to do that.



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Posted: 11 Apr 04, 00:19 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I'ld like to meet you too, Zeni.

and Matt ... Zeni has played the race card on me several times, and I have not developed a persecution complex.

The usual chain of events ...

Zeni and I debate semi-rationally
Zeni wins
I lick my wounds
No Problem

For some reason our debates never get personal, which is unusual, because I can occasionally be a Queenzone trouble-maker (although an easily ignored one).


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Posted: 11 Apr 04, 00:36 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Matt - IT WAS A JOKE - There usually is no winner in the debates ... JUST AN EXCHANGE OF IDEAS.

Matt ... have you met Psyche Star? You guys are perfect for each other. Anyway, I recommend that you stop taking everything personally and develop a thicker skin.

Hmm ... maybe I should quit my day job and become a professional matchmaker.


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Posted: 11 Apr 04, 00:56 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

And may I add that, noone allows someone else to best them - it kind of just happens. Often because of some of natural or learned advantage.
By the way, if there are any cliques established here... can I join? I'll bring the soda.
And one more thing, Mike. The thing I noticed about many debates in which Zeni is involved is that there is often a clear-cut winner... *LOL*

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Posted: 11 Apr 04, 01:45 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote





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Posted: 11 Apr 04, 09:42 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Well then, you can't be in ours... Unless you pledge your unwavering loyalty!

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Posted: 11 Apr 04, 12:35 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote