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Posted: 26 Jun 04, 12:29 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I don't understand how Queen gets such a full, operatic sound when they sing, because there are only 4 members (and sometimes only 3, when they are just doing backups for Freddie). It almost sounds like they have a full choir. It's really cool. I'm also wondering, who has that really falsetto voice? You know in "Bohemian Rhapsody" when the sing "Beezlebub has a devil put aside for me, for me, for meeeeeeeeeeeeee!" during the "meeeeeeeeeee" someone there has an EXTREMELY high voice. I thought it might be Roger, cause in the video, when they are singing "Galileo," Roger is doing the high one, and Freddie is doing the low one.


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Posted: 26 Jun 04, 12:35 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Oh yeah... Now I feel stupid...


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Posted: 26 Jun 04, 12:36 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Barry's right.They use multi-track tapes to acheive that sound. You can buy multi-track tape from most music shops and they cost about £4.99 a roll. You stick the tape over the microphone and when you sing into it, the tape vibrates and gives you that Queen sound.

fatty.

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Posted: 26 Jun 04, 12:40 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Ya I got some at Best Buy the other day. It works, it really works! *cheezy commercial smile*


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Posted: 26 Jun 04, 13:32 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I bought a roll of that same multi-track tape at Walgreens. Did you know that that crap dosen't work worth a damn on Christmas presents? Works OK on some of the other gifts, you know, birthdays, bar-mitvahs, Halloween, making the high school Buggering team, for defecating in a mall, those types of gifts. But Christmas gifts, FORGET IT! The stuff is useless!!!


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Posted: 26 Jun 04, 16:57 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

fatty wrote:

Barry's right.They use multi-track tapes to acheive that sound. You can buy multi-track tape from most music shops and they cost about £4.99 a roll. You stick the tape over the microphone and when you sing into it, the tape vibrates and gives you that Queen sound.

fatty.


Haha, that's the first truly funny thing I've ever heard you say fatty. Well done :)

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Posted: 27 Jun 04, 02:51 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

because there are only 4 members.


3 singers though


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Posted: 27 Jun 04, 04:42 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Yes, three singers - John never sang.

And the one with the super high voice is indeed Roger.

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Posted: 27 Jun 04, 09:27 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

John said in 1982 that "Most vocals are by Brian, Freddie and Roger. I don`t participate very often". That`s very different to never. And most is very diffferent to all. But anyway...

I think the 200 voices quote is an exaggeration. So are the "20 guitars in Millionaire Waltz, doing different things, with different colors...", and the whole "guitar orchestra" labels put a lot in the early albums. Not to mention the "157 synthesisers" in `Fun In Space`

200 voices - Fred said that in 1977, but it could have just been a random number. Same when Roger said "138" some time. Brian calculated 180 voices by multiplying 20 (apparently there were 20 voices doing each part) for 9 (the harmony had apparently 9 part). Now, `Bo Rhap` hardly ever goes beyond 4 or 5 five part. The only sub-section with 9 part is the last "for me". But you can note the lowest part is done only once (thanks to DTS channels), so is Roger`s high Bb and Freddie`s high Ab. So that leaves 6 parts that were actually multi-tracked. The high F (can be heard easier in the karaoke version, or in DTS surround channels) is certainly one voice too, or perhaps there`s a slight chance that there are two (i.e. double tracked Roger). The remaining five parts were probably done as Brian said in the commentary (the three of them recorded each line three times and then recorded the next one). If that`s true, then it`d be 45 voices plus the 5 mentioned before: 50. But I doubt Brian participated in the high D, in that one there`d be only Roger and Freddie. So that lowers 3 voices. 47. Or well, let`s say Brian also sang the D4. 50. But anyway that`s very very very different to 138, 180 or 200. And that`s only the most "crowded" part. "Scaramouche..." is barely more than 6 voices (three-part of double tracked Freddies).

157 Synthesisers in Fun In Space: A synth costed several thousand dollars in that time. An OBX like the one Roger had (the one used for The Game, Flash, Gluttons tour) costed about 10 thousand dollars. The first Fairlight in 1978 costed 180 thousand dollars. So I don`t think anyone in his right mind would spend more than a million dollars worth in synths. And if Roger did, then he would be called by Brian a "synth collector" and not a "guitar collector". But even if Rog had the money or the intention of having that number of synths, back in 1981 it`s very unlikely that there were even 150 synths at all. But perhaps he just threw that line and a random number to parody the "no synth" mark of the first five queen albums.

As for super high voice - Roger didn`t sing higher than Freddie. The thing is that the voice color needed for that part corresponds more to Roger. Roger could do a soprano more accurately since his transition between head and falsetto was smoother. Fred could sing the intro of `39, My Fairy King or In The Lap Of The Gods (they`re all lower notes than what he did in `Rock In Rio Blues`) but Roger`s voice fitted much better the sound required. in fact Fred does the same A4 (the highest note of Lap Of the Gods, My Fairy King and `39) in You Take My Breath Away, but that`s because the effect needed was that. Fred is more "angelical", Roger is more "operatic" in those overhigh notes. What Brian showed in the "very very frightening me" part saying it was the three of them is actually a double tracked Fred. So he did reach the same note, but in the album cut the take used is Roger`s, you can notice the difference. Fred`s timbre was more bell-like, which would work fine for a tune like Leroy Brown. But in the case of Bo Rhap (and Lap Of The Gods and some others) what they needed was a hoarser voice, that would be more "desperate" and raw at the time he sang those notes, and it gave it an operatic touch. That`s why Roger did them.


John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
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Posted: 27 Jun 04, 09:31 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Listen to Tutti Frutti and Baby I Don't care from live at Wembley, on most of that only Freddie and Roger are singing and i think it sounds like about 6/7 people.


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Posted: 27 Jun 04, 10:27 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Where did the synths talk come from in this thread? And is the quote talking literally? Don't think so...

Peace,
Adam.

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Posted: 27 Jun 04, 12:12 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sebastian wrote:

John said in 1982 that "Most vocals are by Brian, Freddie and Roger. I don`t participate very often". That`s very different to never. And most is very diffferent to all. But anyway...

I think the 200 voices quote is an exaggeration. So are the "20 guitars in Millionaire Waltz, doing different things, with different colors...", and the whole "guitar orchestra" labels put a lot in the early albums. Not to mention the "157 synthesisers" in `Fun In Space`

200 voices - Fred said that in 1977, but it could have just been a random number. Same when Roger said "138" some time. Brian calculated 180 voices by multiplying 20 (apparently there were 20 voices doing each part) for 9 (the harmony had apparently 9 part). Now, `Bo Rhap` hardly ever goes beyond 4 or 5 five part. The only sub-section with 9 part is the last "for me". But you can note the lowest part is done only once (thanks to DTS channels), so is Roger`s high Bb and Freddie`s high Ab. So that leaves 6 parts that were actually multi-tracked. The high F (can be heard easier in the karaoke version, or in DTS surround channels) is certainly one voice too, or perhaps there`s a slight chance that there are two (i.e. double tracked Roger). The remaining five parts were probably done as Brian said in the commentary (the three of them recorded each line three times and then recorded the next one). If that`s true, then it`d be 45 voices plus the 5 mentioned before: 50. But I doubt Brian participated in the high D, in that one there`d be only Roger and Freddie. So that lowers 3 voices. 47. Or well, let`s say Brian also sang the D4. 50. But anyway that`s very very very different to 138, 180 or 200. And that`s only the most "crowded" part. "Scaramouche..." is barely more than 6 voices (three-part of double tracked Freddies).

157 Synthesisers in Fun In Space: A synth costed several thousand dollars in that time. An OBX like the one Roger had (the one used for The Game, Flash, Gluttons tour) costed about 10 thousand dollars. The first Fairlight in 1978 costed 180 thousand dollars. So I don`t think anyone in his right mind would spend more than a million dollars worth in synths. And if Roger did, then he would be called by Brian a "synth collector" and not a "guitar collector". But even if Rog had the money or the intention of having that number of synths, back in 1981 it`s very unlikely that there were even 150 synths at all. But perhaps he just threw that line and a random number to parody the "no synth" mark of the first five queen albums.

As for super high voice - Roger didn`t sing higher than Freddie. The thing is that the voice color needed for that part corresponds more to Roger. Roger could do a soprano more accurately since his transition between head and falsetto was smoother. Fred could sing the intro of `39, My Fairy King or In The Lap Of The Gods (they`re all lower notes than what he did in `Rock In Rio Blues`) but Roger`s voice fitted much better the sound required. in fact Fred does the same A4 (the highest note of Lap Of the Gods, My Fairy King and `39) in You Take My Breath Away, but that`s because the effect needed was that. Fred is more "angelical", Roger is more "operatic" in those overhigh notes. What Brian showed in the "very very frightening me" part saying it was the three of them is actually a double tracked Fred. So he did reach the same note, but in the album cut the take used is Roger`s, you can notice the difference. Fred`s timbre was more bell-like, which would work fine for a tune like Leroy Brown. But in the case of Bo Rhap (and Lap Of The Gods and some others) what they needed was a hoarser voice, that would be more "desperate" and raw at the time he sang those notes, and it gave it an operatic touch. That`s why Roger did them.


Er... thank you.


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Posted: 28 Jun 04, 02:31 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

SergeantPepperDG wrote:

Sebastian wrote:

John said in 1982 that "Most vocals are by Brian, Freddie and Roger. I don`t participate very often". That`s very different to never. And most is very diffferent to all. But anyway...

I think the 200 voices quote is an exaggeration. So are the "20 guitars in Millionaire Waltz, doing different things, with different colors...", and the whole "guitar orchestra" labels put a lot in the early albums. Not to mention the "157 synthesisers" in `Fun In Space`

200 voices - Fred said that in 1977, but it could have just been a random number. Same when Roger said "138" some time. Brian calculated 180 voices by multiplying 20 (apparently there were 20 voices doing each part) for 9 (the harmony had apparently 9 part). Now, `Bo Rhap` hardly ever goes beyond 4 or 5 five part. The only sub-section with 9 part is the last "for me". But you can note the lowest part is done only once (thanks to DTS channels), so is Roger`s high Bb and Freddie`s high Ab. So that leaves 6 parts that were actually multi-tracked. The high F (can be heard easier in the karaoke version, or in DTS surround channels) is certainly one voice too, or perhaps there`s a slight chance that there are two (i.e. double tracked Roger). The remaining five parts were probably done as Brian said in the commentary (the three of them recorded each line three times and then recorded the next one). If that`s true, then it`d be 45 voices plus the 5 mentioned before: 50. But I doubt Brian participated in the high D, in that one there`d be only Roger and Freddie. So that lowers 3 voices. 47. Or well, let`s say Brian also sang the D4. 50. But anyway that`s very very very different to 138, 180 or 200. And that`s only the most "crowded" part. "Scaramouche..." is barely more than 6 voices (three-part of double tracked Freddies).

157 Synthesisers in Fun In Space: A synth costed several thousand dollars in that time. An OBX like the one Roger had (the one used for The Game, Flash, Gluttons tour) costed about 10 thousand dollars. The first Fairlight in 1978 costed 180 thousand dollars. So I don`t think anyone in his right mind would spend more than a million dollars worth in synths. And if Roger did, then he would be called by Brian a "synth collector" and not a "guitar collector". But even if Rog had the money or the intention of having that number of synths, back in 1981 it`s very unlikely that there were even 150 synths at all. But perhaps he just threw that line and a random number to parody the "no synth" mark of the first five queen albums.

As for super high voice - Roger didn`t sing higher than Freddie. The thing is that the voice color needed for that part corresponds more to Roger. Roger could do a soprano more accurately since his transition between head and falsetto was smoother. Fred could sing the intro of `39, My Fairy King or In The Lap Of The Gods (they`re all lower notes than what he did in `Rock In Rio Blues`) but Roger`s voice fitted much better the sound required. in fact Fred does the same A4 (the highest note of Lap Of the Gods, My Fairy King and `39) in You Take My Breath Away, but that`s because the effect needed was that. Fred is more "angelical", Roger is more "operatic" in those overhigh notes. What Brian showed in the "very very frightening me" part saying it was the three of them is actually a double tracked Fred. So he did reach the same note, but in the album cut the take used is Roger`s, you can notice the difference. Fred`s timbre was more bell-like, which would work fine for a tune like Leroy Brown. But in the case of Bo Rhap (and Lap Of The Gods and some others) what they needed was a hoarser voice, that would be more "desperate" and raw at the time he sang those notes, and it gave it an operatic touch.


~~~

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~~~
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Posted: 28 Jun 04, 03:27 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sebastian wrote:

John said in 1982 that "Most vocals are by Brian, Freddie and Roger. I don`t participate very often". That`s very different to never. And most is very diffferent to all. But anyway...


I can believe he sang live with his mic turned way way down, but his voice is clearly absent in the studio recordings.

As for super high voice - Roger didn`t sing higher than Freddie.


The hell he didn't. Brian says flat out on the Bo Rhap part of GVHI that Roger had the highest voice. Whether his top notes are ever actually used in a recording doesn't matter. Freddie clearly struggled at pitches where Roger did not. By the time Roger got to that same level of struggle, Freddie would not have been able to sing those notes at all.

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Posted: 28 Jun 04, 05:56 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

So much to answer but anyway...

Yeah I know nobody mentioned synths, but in the case you haven`t noticed, I enjoy long posts. And that doesn`t mean I don`t have time, the whole "getting laid" comment is way out of context, so I`ll just ignore it

John`s exact quote is "In the albums, Roger, Freddie and Brian do most of the vocal harmonies. I don`t participate very often. On stage I do very little backing vocals ,but I can`t call myself a singer". So there you go, MAINLY is not ALL, and NOT VERY OFTEN is not NEVER

There`s another nice comment about that, made by him in 1976. About Roy Thomas Baker and that he "recorded our vocals over fifty times". Keyword: OUR, not THEIR. But in that case by "our" he could have meant "Queen vocals" or "the band`s vocals" and not neccesarily implied that he sung. But in the other he said he did, not very often but that`s not a 0% anyway

Roger vs Freddie: I don`t see Fred struggling for notes Roger could reach "easily". Roger had many problems in Lap Of the Gods and `39 (except in Rainbow, but that one might be an overdub). Note Lap Of the Gods in `75 concerts, his voice could hit the notes but not so easily as in the studio version. Same as `39, all the times I`ve heard it live (except the one from Live Killers which might also be overdubbed) he missed the last note, he just took off the mic before he did it. And that note is lower than the one Fred did in `Rock In Rio Blues`. Roger sang very high with an open throat in the recordings of `Tie Your mother down` (the last "all your love toNIGHT"), and it sounds great, but it`s the same note Fred did in `Hang On In There`, which he didn`t struggle for either. On stage Roger got the high part in We Are the Champions most likely because Fred "oxided" his voice much more, he didn`t take care of it. Moreover Fred sang during all the concert and Roger just in the choruses and I`m In Love With My Car. That gets it a lot less tired for the high C in `Champions`. But that doesn`t mean Roger could sing higher. that doesn`t mean he couldn`t either. I`m almost sure their ranges ended up in the same note, or if not, the difference would be just one semitone.


John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
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Posted: 28 Jun 04, 14:49 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

"John`s exact quote is "In the albums, Roger, Freddie and Brian do most of the vocal harmonies. I don`t participate very often. On stage I do very little backing vocals ,but I can`t call myself a singer". So there you go, MAINLY is not ALL, and NOT VERY OFTEN is not NEVER"

And there are a half dozen quotes you could easily dig up that say he never sings on the albums. Maybe he sang on the albums, but those takes were not used in the final mixes. Otherwise, point out to me one place in one Queen song where you can identify a voice that is not Freddie's, Brian's, or Rogers.

"Roger vs Freddie: I don`t see Fred struggling for notes Roger could reach "easily". Roger had many problems in Lap Of the Gods and `39 (except in Rainbow, but that one might be an overdub). Note Lap Of the Gods in `75 concerts, his voice could hit the notes but not so easily as in the studio version. Same as `39, all the times I`ve heard it live (except the one from Live Killers which might also be overdubbed) he missed the last note, he just took off the mic before he did it. And that note is lower than the one Fred did in `Rock In Rio Blues`. Roger sang very high with an open throat in the recordings of `Tie Your mother down` (the last "all your love toNIGHT"), and it sounds great, but it`s the same note Fred did in `Hang On In There`, which he didn`t struggle for either. On stage Roger got the high part in We Are the Champions most likely because Fred "oxided" his voice much more, he didn`t take care of it. Moreover Fred sang during all the concert and Roger just in the choruses and I`m In Love With My Car. That gets it a lot less tired for the high C in `Champions`. But that doesn`t mean Roger could sing higher. that doesn`t mean he couldn`t either. I`m almost sure their ranges ended up in the same note, or if not, the difference would be just one semitone."

The bottom line is that Brian flat out said Roger had a higher voice, and I think he would know. If you refuse to accept that and you cannot hear the greater strain Freddie's voice at pitches where Roger has none, then there is no force on earth that will convince you.

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Posted: 29 Jun 04, 04:26 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

That's true, but what about Freddie's Opera in Barcelona? There are some parts where you think it's Montsy-It's actually Freddie. It's amazing.


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Posted: 29 Jun 04, 04:36 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

And also it's possible that when John made his comment about not participating vocally very often, he was thinking about things he (possibly) featured in such as the big singalong at the end of SSOR, all the chat at the end of LMEY, and possible the huge chorus at the end of ITLOTG(R).

Featuring vocally in sections such as these is a far cry from being a key element of some of the very precise Queen harmonies, as Seb seems to think John was.


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Posted: 29 Jun 04, 04:38 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

fatty wrote:

Barry's right.They use multi-track tapes to acheive that sound. You can buy multi-track tape from most music shops and they cost about £4.99 a roll. You stick the tape over the microphone and when you sing into it, the tape vibrates and gives you that Queen sound.

fatty.
Fatty...
...
...
...
...
...
...
...That was great. :|


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Posted: 29 Jun 04, 07:43 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Parts that aren`t Fred, Brian or Roger - For example, the choruses in `Rock It`, checked with DTS, are obviously different people or themselves with vari-speed. But if there are more people, it`s equally probable that it`s john or the producers or whoever.

Roger vs Fred - I`m not saying Brian is ignorant, but do you think Brian has taken the time to analyse Fred`s impromptus and compare them with Roger`s highest parts and notice who struggled and who didn`t and then check the notes and who sang more than 880 Hz etc etc? No. I can assure you that the people in this forum are more likely to tell such details, because they, as Niek said once I believe, just write the songs, record them, rehearse them to play live (some of them), but that`s it. They don`t analyse them or make lists of "what`s the song Fred sings highest on...". Something I noticed lately is that the hidden direct fore-runner to Bo Rhap is `In The Lap Of The Gods` (not the revisited one). There are many details in common. But of course I doubt the band would take the time to transcribe each song`s form and to figure out common aspects. Fred did point out though that `Lap` did help him to write something like `Bo Rhap`, but anyway I personally think that he did "paraphrase" some parts in a subconscious level, not thinking of "I`m going to put 10 Lap trademarks in Bo rhap" or something to that effect. In the same way, I can assure you Brian, Roger or John know less about demos than half of the people in this forum. Or concert setlists.


John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.