Forums > Queen - Serious Discussion > Why is Queen not that respected

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martinusx user not visiting Queenzone.com


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Posted: 11 Aug 04, 09:47 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Why is it that Queen often does not get the respect they deserve? Given the fact that they wrote plenty of memorable songs and that especially Freddie and Brian were excellent instrumentalist, I find that the 'Serious' music press ignores their achievements. Is it because of their music is often pompous, or flamboyant, did they sell to many records, or what did they do to derve being called 'Facist'? Bob Dylan for example is respected, but he can't really sing and hasn't written that many songs. I find it a bit irritating, but Queen did get more respected when Freddie died. It's a good carreer move to die in showbizz

Greetz

martinusx user not visiting Queenzone.com


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Posted: 11 Aug 04, 09:48 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Dylan wrote not that many good songs I meant.

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Posted: 11 Aug 04, 10:05 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

There is no such thing as 'serious' music press.

Mr Coolest Cat user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 11 Aug 04, 10:06 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The only good song Dylan wrote was All along the watch tower, the rest was boring old crap, in other words, music to slash your wrists too, au revoir.


There must be more to life than this.
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Posted: 11 Aug 04, 10:12 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Freddie once said 'Fuck the press' and the 'press' will never forget that.


Live life to the full!
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Posted: 11 Aug 04, 10:22 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Dylan has written much more songs than Queen, but Queen has written far better songs.

Has anyone noticed how all the Bob Dylan covers are always better than the original?
I totally agree that the guy can't sing for shit.



[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Brandon wrote: [/QUOTENAME]... and now the "best you can offer is Mr. Jingles? HA! He's... just pathetic.[/QUOTE]
Sir B.A Baracus user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 11 Aug 04, 10:23 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Blinded By the Light

Words and Music by Bruce Springsteen


Madman drummers bummers and Indians in the summer with a teenage diplomat
In the dumps with the mumps as the adolescent pumps his way into his hat
With a boulder on my shoulder feelin' kinda older I tripped the merry-go-round
With this very unpleasing sneezing and wheezing the calliope crashed to the ground
Some all-hot half-shot was headin' for the hot spot snappin' his fingers clappin' his hands
And some fleshpot mascot was tied into a lover's knot with a whatnot in her hand
And now young Scott with a slingshot finally found a tender spot and throws his lover in the sand
And some bloodshot forget-menot whispers daddy's within earshot save the buckshot turn up the band

And she was blinded by the light. Cut loose like a deuce
Another runner in the night. Blinded by the light
She got down but she never got tight, but she'll make it alright

Some brimstone baritone anticyclone rolling stone preacher from the east
He says: "Dethrone the dictaphone, hit it in its funny bone, that's where they expect it least"
And some new-mown chaperone was standin' in the corner all alone watchin' the young girls dance
And some fresh-sown moonstone was messin' with his frozen zone to remind him of the feeling of romance

Yeah he was blinded by the light. Cut loose like a deuce
Another runner in the night. Blinded by the light
He got down but she never got tight, but he's gonna make it tonight

Some silicone sister with her manager's mister told me I got what it takes
She said I'll turn you on sonny to something strong if you play that song with the funky break
And go-cart Mozart was checkin' out the weather chart to see if it was safe to go outside
And little Early-Pearly came in by her curly-wurly and asked me if I needed a ride
Oh, some hazard from Harvard was skunked on beer playin' backyard bombardier
Yes and Scotland Yard was trying hard, they sent a dude with a calling card,
he said, do what you like, but don't do it here
Well I jumped up, turned around, spit in the air, fell on the ground, asked wich was the way back home
He said take a right at the light, keep going straight until right, and then boy you're on your own

And now in Zanzibar a shootin' star was ridin' in a side car hummin' a lunar tune
Yes, and the avatar said blow the bar but first remove the cookie jar, we're gonna teach those boys to laugh too soon
And some kidnapped handicap was complaining that he caught the clap from some mousetrap he bought last night
Well I unsnapped his skull cap and between his ears I saw a gap but he'd figured he'd be all right

He was just blinded by the light. Cut loose like a deuce
Another runner in the night. Blinded by the light
Mama always told me not to look into the sights of the sun
Oh but mama that's where the fun is


I hath soiled myself, methinks.....
Mr.Jingles user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 11 Aug 04, 10:34 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Listen to this because it's very important...

Who gives a fuck what critics think when music itself was made for the general public to enjoy it, not for some moron to tell people what they should listen to. It's the opinion of hundreds of critics against millions of people... so who is going to win?

As Freddie mentioned before, critics are nothing but a bunch of frustrated musicians. These music "experts" base their comments only on personal matters with the musicians, not quality, originality or talent.

Bob Dylan could be a god among critics, but he doesn't have one single bit of the worldwide popularity that Queen has.


[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Brandon wrote: [/QUOTENAME]... and now the "best you can offer is Mr. Jingles? HA! He's... just pathetic.[/QUOTE]
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Posted: 11 Aug 04, 10:37 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Well said Jingle Bells


There must be more to life than this.
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Posted: 11 Aug 04, 10:49 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I don't even listen to critics. :)


"The walls we build around us to keep sadness out also keep out the joy."

(Jim Rohn)
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Posted: 11 Aug 04, 11:16 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

It`s actually a combination of factors. Queen didn`t actually invent anything, and top bands are mostly recognised for that: e.g. Led Zeppelin / Black Sabbath created heavy metal, Dylan started mature lyricism, Beatles did the first concept album... Now I`m not discussing now if those statements are true, but for the general audience, they`re considered facts. Same as Jimmy Hendrix as the best guitarist, John Bonham as the best drummer... Queen`s only official "first" is the video, and without telling the whole story, there are many videos before Bo Rhap.

As for Queen`s music itself, apart from the "lack of inventions": not enough promotion in the US during the 80s, with exception of Bo Rhap all of its mammooth hits are musically simple: Rock You, Radio Ga Ga, I Want To Break Free and the two US #1s. We Are The Champions is another super-hit and many people know it, but, as Denes once pointed out, nearly nobody pays attention to the music: the key changes, the orchestral bass-line, the way guitars build up the climax, the "angelical" vocal harmonies...

Freddie`s style, specially from Sheer Heart Attack onwards, was to put a "reverse make-up" and make the complex things look simpler, so they could be easy listeneable. For example Bicycle Race or Killer Queen are very complex songs, musically, but an ocassional listener doesn`t note that because Freddie put the modulations and stuff to happen "in the background". As opposed to that, several progressive songs are simpler, but they put so much improvisation and instrumental parts over them that they seem so much complex than they actually are. For example `The Wall` album (Pink Floyd), is very respected and admired, even though it`s not complex harmonically. Of course I love the album and the arrangements are great but that`s a different issue. Same for songs like November Rain or even Stairway. Mercury`s choice had a good part: those "proggressive" songs could still be "pop" and could be brought to the masses (a similar choice as Supertramp in late 70s). But of course it had a bad part: few people realise how clever those songs really are. He kind of sacrificed his own "musical genius" image due to that, and I`m glad he did, personally. If Bicycle Race or Somebody To Love lasted 18 minutes long and all the modulations were shown more in the foreground, surely prog fans would respect more the band, but a much smaller audience would even know about those tracks.

As for their performance, it`s also lack of general "fame". I mean all the world knows Radio Ga Ga, but very few know Was It All Worth It. Even a lot of Queen fans ignore the amazing range Roger had (he sang very high but he could also do great low notes), or John`s melodic bass-lines (e.g. the ending of Loser In The End). While Freddie`s popularity as singer is in a high level (and "best frontman/singer" polls demonstrate it), a lot of non-fans don`t even know he played piano, much less they know about his most interesting keyboard parts (the solos of My Fairy King, Love Of My Life, Fairy Feller`s Master Stroke).


John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
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Posted: 11 Aug 04, 11:48 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sebastian wrote:

Queen didn`t actually invent anything, and top bands are mostly recognised for that: e.g. Led Zeppelin / Black Sabbath created heavy metal, Dylan started mature lyricism, Beatles did the first concept album... Now I`m not discussing now if those statements are true, but for the general audience, they`re considered facts. Same as Jimmy Hendrix as the best guitarist, John Bonham as the best drummer... Queen`s only official "first" is the video, and without telling the whole story, there are many videos before Bo Rhap.
That's a very good point!!! No-one can deny that some influence (and the bands mentioned by Sebastian are among the strongest ones!) is heard on EVERY Queen album... I would add one more thing, though- another reason why they didn't invent too much and are not that respected by general public is the fact that they were more often than not following the trends... In 1970s the rock was the major force and Queen were cool by playing heavy (of course it's generalisation- they had their own unique style, but...)
Came 80s, pop became extremely popular and their music changed as well... Especially its production- albums like AKOM or WORKS have 80s written all over them... The bands like Dream Theater play their music no matter what is actually popular - they're gonna be more respected than, but... not so popular!!! I'm not saying this way or another is better, but... That's how it works, IMO

Sebastian wrote:

with exception of Bo Rhap all of its mammooth hits are musically simple: Rock You, Radio Ga Ga, I Want To Break Free and the two US #1s. We Are The Champions is another super-hit and many people know it, but, as Denes once pointed out, nearly nobody pays attention to the music: the key changes, the orchestral bass-line, the way guitars build up the climax, the "angelical" vocal harmonies...
Many ppl I've met stated they didn't like Queen giving me examples of tracks like Radio Ga-Ga or IWTBF, basically thinking that's what Queen were all about... You can't imagine how surprised they were and how much they enjoyed it when I forced them to listen to my bootlegs- Hammersmith'79, Buenos Aires'81, and the likes... They never even thought Queen had so much energy and were such a great rock band!!! And those ppl weren't idiots- they were just listening to different artists- Lou Reed fans, Nirvana fans, Black Sabbath fans, even Metallica fans...
******************************
It seems like some ppl didn't understand what this subjest is about... It's not only about critics... Only few hundreds? Well, how about millions of ppl who AREN'T Queen fans because all they hear in the radio is Ga-Ga or We are The Champions and when they read newspapers, they read- it's all crap... How about general audience- not everybody has to own a Queen album; not everybody has to know what Queen was all about!!! And clearly- Queen isn't respected not only by critics, but also by a huge part of general rock audience- very often misleded by those "unimportant" critics, but also very often because of bad promotion... I know many ppl here love Wembley, but... I can't see Led Zeppelin die-hards falling on their knees after listening to Wembley... I could imagine them doing so, however, after listening to Houston...

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Posted: 11 Aug 04, 12:17 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Read the forum!

Try these answers

Another Queen Song In A Commercial
http://www.queenzone.com/queenzone/forumnew/forum_topic_view.aspx?Q=376225

Sue their asses!!
http://www.queenzone.com/queenzone/forumnew/forum_topic_view.aspx?Q=376276

and this is a Queen/Brian friendly site!

You know I love my children (nothing means more to me) but there are times when I have criticised and even on ocassion - chastised them. This does not mean I do NOT love them - quite the reverse.

But we do not have to be sycophantic. If only someone loved Elvis enough to say he was too fat. If only someone stopped Ali from a fight too many.

It seems that great rock 'n roll bands sell their soul to the devil and not to "5ive", Britney or Viagra - or complain about their music being used as inspiration!

But as musicians - they rock!


"Listen to them. Children of the night. What music they make."
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Posted: 11 Aug 04, 12:37 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sir B.A Baracus wrote:

Blinded By the Light

Words and Music by Bruce Springsteen


Madman drummers bummers and Indians in the summer with a teenage diplomat
In the dumps with the mumps as the adolescent pumps his way into his hat
With a boulder on my shoulder feelin' kinda older I tripped the merry-go-round
With this very unpleasing sneezing and wheezing the calliope crashed to the ground
Some all-hot half-shot was headin' for the hot spot snappin' his fingers clappin' his hands
And some fleshpot mascot was tied into a lover's knot with a whatnot in her hand
And now young Scott with a slingshot finally found a tender spot and throws his lover in the sand
And some bloodshot forget-menot whispers daddy's within earshot save the buckshot turn up the band

And she was blinded by the light. Cut loose like a deuce
Another runner in the night. Blinded by the light
She got down but she never got tight, but she'll make it alright

Some brimstone baritone anticyclone rolling stone preacher from the east
He says: "Dethrone the dictaphone, hit it in its funny bone, that's where they expect it least"
And some new-mown chaperone was standin' in the corner all alone watchin' the young girls dance
And some fresh-sown moonstone was messin' with his frozen zone to remind him of the feeling of romance

Yeah he was blinded by the light. Cut loose like a deuce
Another runner in the night. Blinded by the light
He got down but she never got tight, but he's gonna make it tonight

Some silicone sister with her manager's mister told me I got what it takes
She said I'll turn you on sonny to something strong if you play that song with the funky break
And go-cart Mozart was checkin' out the weather chart to see if it was safe to go outside
And little Early-Pearly came in by her curly-wurly and asked me if I needed a ride
Oh, some hazard from Harvard was skunked on beer playin' backyard bombardier
Yes and Scotland Yard was trying hard, they sent a dude with a calling card,
he said, do what you like, but don't do it here
Well I jumped up, turned around, spit in the air, fell on the ground, asked wich was the way back home
He said take a right at the light, keep going straight until right, and then boy you're on your own

And now in Zanzibar a shootin' star was ridin' in a side car hummin' a lunar tune
Yes, and the avatar said blow the bar but first remove the cookie jar, we're gonna teach those boys to laugh too soon
And some kidnapped handicap was complaining that he caught the clap from some mousetrap he bought last night
Well I unsnapped his skull cap and between his ears I saw a gap but he'd figured he'd be all right

He was just blinded by the light. Cut loose like a deuce
Another runner in the night. Blinded by the light
Mama always told me not to look into the sights of the sun
Oh but mama that's where the fun is


WHO GIVES A FUCK STUPID MOTHERFUCKER

Whisperer user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 11 Aug 04, 13:56 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Come on!

Queen might not have invented anything new, but they were so much better than the rest in everything that was invented before them.

And stop bashing Ga-Ga and all those other 80s songs. It was mostly these songs that made Queen a super-band. All kinds of people know them and like them, not only some narrow group of heavy fans or metal fans.


Not those are losers who fall, but those who don't stand up.
Ozz user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 11 Aug 04, 14:41 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I just want to add that.....

Queen maybe didnt invent anything (but, brian made his guitar and create a sound).... but

what press never saw , was the fact that ..

Can you put any band in the same category of Queen? like when people talk about hard rock bands, or heavy metal bands, or progressive bands or anything....

Queen is too smart for being POP, too listenable for being in any rock category, ....

Culture always be something for elite, ... alternative music is big just because, if less people heard it, is better and more cult.

Thats the good and bad thing of Queen....

Is the only rock band that could be liked by your mother, grandfather, wife and kids, friends and anybody....

and thats not respectable or politically correct,
and thats what press hate

and thats what makes this forum so big and the queen fans over the world a big and "often" nice movement......




I reign with my left hand I rule with my right

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Posted: 11 Aug 04, 14:48 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I agree with Ozz; you can't really fit Queen into a box. They go from ballads (Love Of My Life, You Take My Breath Away), to rockers (Hammer To Fall, I Want It All), and then to more pop-oriented singles (A Kind Of Magic, You're My Best Friend), and then back again. There's just no label that fits, and I guess that that somehow turns people off.

And plus, the added stigma of the press isn't that helpful.


Resistance is futile. You are now an orb.

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Posted: 11 Aug 04, 14:53 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Yes, Queen is certainly one of the most versatile bands I have ever encountered.


Creativity can always cover for a lack of knowledge.
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Posted: 11 Aug 04, 14:57 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

My two cents. I'm sure that Mercedes Benz, Ferrari, BMW manufacture better cars than its inventors. And current birds do a better job than the Archaeopterix and other primitive dinosaur-birds.
Anyway, Queen actually does invented new, magnificent things in music .....QUEEN SONGS

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Posted: 11 Aug 04, 15:40 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Why is it that so many people call themselves "fans" and all they do is diss their favorite band for trying something new. A band has the right to do the music they want.

Look at Metallica for instance... sure their earlier work was perhaps better, but just because someone wants to explore new horizons doesn't mean they've sold out. 'The Black Album' is without a doubt one of the best albums of all time, and just because it appeals more to the general public than the hard core-metal fans doesn't mean it's crap, or that the band has sold out.

Genesis case is very similar to Queen...
During the 70s Genesis was a well known progressive rock band with still kind of a cult status, then time, new music styles, and the departure of Peter Gabriel forced Genesis to change. Genesis then went more towards the pop/rock mainstream while still keeping a musical identity as a band. They became a bigger band with more hits and albums sold. A lot of their fans resented the change of sound.


[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Brandon wrote: [/QUOTENAME]... and now the "best you can offer is Mr. Jingles? HA! He's... just pathetic.[/QUOTE]