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Posted: 26 Sep 04, 23:17 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

1 - The economy has improved and grown in the face of terrorism. Manufacturing materials are in short supply because of high demand. True, there are few new jobs, but that is primarily due to productivity improvements resulting from the "computer revolution". There are many American companies that have not been affected by imports because they work smarter not harder. There is still a niche for American know-how.

2 - Will Kerry will cave into the unions and institute more protectionist trade policies that will result in a global trade war?? He seems to be hinting at that ... and history has shown global trade wars usually result in world recession.

3 - Caving in to terrorists and tyrants is not the answer. The job in Iraq needs to be finished. Even France's pacivist ways did not prevent kidnapping of their citizens by terrorists. What ever happened to those two French guys?

4 - Who needs two ambulance chasing lawyers in the White House? Tort reform is needed now. The legal system should not be used as a lottery system. I suppose I could have gone to Madison County, Illinois and sued my doctor for an unsuccessful vasectomy and won a few thousand dollars I would not deserve ...

Yes, Bush is not an ideal candidate, but Kerry stands for nothing. He has done nothing in 19 years in the Senate. Do we want a president who is puppeted by a princess whose papa presented her a pureed tomato plantation?


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Posted: 26 Sep 04, 23:21 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

One word...

LMAO!! Good one, man! I needed a good laugh.


[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Brandon wrote: [/QUOTENAME]... and now the "best you can offer is Mr. Jingles? HA! He's... just pathetic.[/QUOTE]
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Posted: 26 Sep 04, 23:33 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I expected as much from you.


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Posted: 26 Sep 04, 23:38 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Bullwinkle wrote:

I expected as much from you.


So did I!

Please post more reasons why we should vote for Bush!


[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Brandon wrote: [/QUOTENAME]... and now the "best you can offer is Mr. Jingles? HA! He's... just pathetic.[/QUOTE]
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Posted: 26 Sep 04, 23:45 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

It is a good thing that you are not old enough to vote.



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Posted: 26 Sep 04, 23:52 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Mr.Jingles79 wrote:

One word...

LMAO!! Good one, man! I needed a good laugh.


Great logic Jingles. Why not post a coherent rebuttal?


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Posted: 26 Sep 04, 23:53 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

It's a good thing that you don't even know my age, because I'm actually past the age with the right to vote.
Doesn't surprise me that you're one of those morons who judge based on assumptions and not true facts.

And you call youself wise? I've seen Jessica Simpson show a lot more wisdom than that.


[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Brandon wrote: [/QUOTENAME]... and now the "best you can offer is Mr. Jingles? HA! He's... just pathetic.[/QUOTE]
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Posted: 27 Sep 04, 00:01 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Mr.Jingles79 wrote:

One word...

LMAO!!


Technically, that's an acronym.

And it still lacks a coherent rebuttal, unless "moron" and "Jessica Simpson" are your idea of debate.


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Posted: 27 Sep 04, 00:11 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Should I be taking this seriously when Bullwinkle has not given any reason whatsoever to have a decent arguement?


[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Brandon wrote: [/QUOTENAME]... and now the "best you can offer is Mr. Jingles? HA! He's... just pathetic.[/QUOTE]
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Posted: 27 Sep 04, 00:12 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

If I remember correctly you are physically over 21, but mentally is another story ...

R-E-M-E-M-B-E-R to push the pin completely through the ballot - or is that too complicated for you?

I am still waiting for a coherent response - or is that beyond your mental capacity?


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Posted: 27 Sep 04, 00:19 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

So now your excuse is that I'm mentally under 21? Didn't seem to sound like that when you first said it. Unless you're able to judge someone's age based on pure mental capacity, which I believe you have a lot, don't you?

You seem to be contradicting yourself by telling me that it's good that I'm not able to vote, and now you're telling me to push the pin completely through the ballot.

Tsk, tsk, tsk... And this comes from the same person who calls Kerry a flip-flopper. Better take a look at the mirror next time, dude.


[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Brandon wrote: [/QUOTENAME]... and now the "best you can offer is Mr. Jingles? HA! He's... just pathetic.[/QUOTE]
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Posted: 27 Sep 04, 00:47 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Where is your coherent response? Trouble is - you have nothing to say, and cannot respond rationally to my contentions.

Jingles the wise man sayeth: "LMAO"


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Posted: 27 Sep 04, 00:54 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

"Why not post a coherent rebuttal?"

Because there isn't one. You don't have anything to rebutt. It's just random made-up remarks.

Bush rapes chickens..

Rebutt that. See--you can't. It's just too absurd.

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Posted: 27 Sep 04, 01:09 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Ok, what the hell. I'm bored. I'm pissed of at XP Pro so I need a break.

OK, bull. I'm up for a debate. I'll try and rebutt these and we'll see what we can come up with for a discussion.

"1 - The economy has improved and grown in the face of terrorism."

I'm not sure where you've gotten those statistics. I've seen plenty of statistics lately that show any perceived growth is just that...perceived...not real. Of the jobs that we've gained, a vast majority have been paying less than $13,000 a year.

"True, there are few new jobs, but that is primarily due to productivity improvements resulting from the "computer revolution"."

Again, where you are getting these stats? There are plenty of stats that would say the opposite...that the lack of new jobs is due to a large amount of outsourcing...especially 'computer' jobs.

"There are many American companies that have not been affected by imports because they work smarter not harder."

Such as?...

There are plenty of industries being gutted due to overseas slave labor...lumber, textiles, data entry, etc.

"There is still a niche for American know-how."

But not American hard work? That's my beef with that argument. Leave an elite, wealthy 'brain trust' in the US while outsourcing our labor to slave-conditions overseas, letting the rest here fend for themselves as Wal-Mart cashiers. (OK, that's over dramatized just a tad. ;o)

"2 - Will Kerry will cave into the unions and institute more protectionist trade policies that will result in a global trade war?"

Are you anti-union, bull? If so, then I guess there's no point debating that issue with you.

"Caving in to terrorists and tyrants is not the answer."

Terrorists? No, of course not. Is kerry proposing we cave in? No. Of course not. Is either candidate proposing ways to solve the problem at the root level? I haven't heard much from Bush on that.

Tyrants? We do business with them daily. I know this is a point you disagree with, Bull, but that's what we do. We're a rather fickle country when it comes to business. If it makes us rich, we're OK looking a blind eye once in a while.

"The job in Iraq needs to be finished."

Well, it'd help if we had a defined job to begin with. We don't. There really is no 'finish' in site. Unless by 'finish' you mean hand over our checking accounts to Haliburton.

"Even France's pacivist ways did not prevent kidnapping of their citizens by terrorists."

And our bullying and oppressive dominance has not prevented kidnapping of our citizens by terrorists. Interesting.

"Who needs two ambulance chasing lawyers in the White House?"

Well, calling them ambulance chasers is simply you showing your ignorance of the types of cases they handled.

"Tort reform is needed now."

Define that for me. HOW do you propose we reform it?

"The legal system should not be used as a lottery system."

Nope.

"I suppose I could have gone to Madison County, Illinois and sued my doctor for an unsuccessful vasectomy and won a few thousand dollars I would not deserve ..."

You can sue for anything you want to. That's how our system works. It's not perfect. I'm open to hearing alternatives. Denying people the right to hold others accountable is not one of them, though.

"Yes, Bush is not an ideal candidate, but Kerry stands for nothing."

Kerry Stands for a bit more than Bush. I'll admit that we don't have a great selection of options here. I do feel that Kerry is much more supportive of our military. Bush has gutted it. Kerry is at least talking about doing something with our healthcare system. Bush's plan is the smallest proposed plan in some 30 years.

Kerry seems to have a stance on protecting the Environment. He's not a green candidate, by any means, but, granted, compared to Bush, anyone is a tree hugger.

"Do we w

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Posted: 27 Sep 04, 01:10 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I expected more from you Joey - I really did.

edit - I did not see your later response.


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Posted: 27 Sep 04, 01:17 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Lacking the time to present something real in depth, Bush has taken a surplus and created record deficits. The tax cuts we've received have been eaten away by state 'fees' such as vehicle registration, toll increases, etc, as well as unrealistic real estate evaluations, increasing our property taxes.

The infrastructure is a shambles, the money wasted in Iraq should be used for homeland improvements and security. Our ports, railways and airways are just as succeptible to terrorist actions as they were before 9/11.

Needed social programs are going by the wayside. 'No Child Left Behind' is an expensive joke. His environmental record is costing us now, and will dearly in the future.

I truly fear his naming any replacements on the Supreme Court. We all should.

btw, Kerry was a prosecutor. Ambulance chasers make good presidents, since half of our presidents studied law or were lawyers.

Bush could have acted moderately, considering he received less votes as his opponent, pushing his issues but finding a common ground. Instead, he's run his radical neocon agenda down our throats in an extreme antagonistic approach. Done so with the world as well.

The actions in Afghanistan were correct. What's going on there now is a shame due to neglect. How in the hell elections can take place there and in Iraq is beyond me.

He's vicious. Was to McCain. Is to any opponent. Flipflops on statements made about topics in 2000, such as gay marriage ammendments being left up to the states, balanced budgets, fighting the creating of a 9/11 commission, then going against its recommendations, then agreeing to it, then changing it, then.....

He's been so willing to shed our blood over in Iraq. Guess that comes from his hardline National Guard days, defending Texas' borders from attacks by Arkansas.

j+III


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Posted: 27 Sep 04, 02:06 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

joeyjojo wrote:

Ok, what the hell. I'm bored. I'm pissed of at XP Pro so I need a break.

OK, bull. I'm up for a debate. I'll try and rebutt these and we'll see what we can come up with for a discussion.

"1 - The economy has improved and grown in the face of terrorism."

I'm not sure where you've gotten those statistics. I've seen plenty of statistics lately that show any perceived growth is just that...perceived...not real. Of the jobs that we've gained, a vast majority have been paying less than $13,000 a year.

MDV - as I recall, the GNP has expanded 3 to 4 percent in the last year. Our company has been very busy since October of last year.

"True, there are few new jobs, but that is primarily due to productivity improvements resulting from the "computer revolution"."

Again, where you are getting these stats? There are plenty of stats that would say the opposite...that the lack of new jobs is due to a large amount of outsourcing...especially 'computer' jobs.

MDV - here are your stats: http://www.hrmguide.com/international/productivity.htm

"There are many American companies that have not been affected by imports because they work smarter not harder."

Such as?...

MDV - Urick Foundry (Ridgid Tools), Walker Forge (steel forgings), Applied Process Inc (specialty heat treater)

There are plenty of industries being gutted due to overseas slave labor...lumber, textiles, data entry, etc.

"There is still a niche for American know-how."

But not American hard work? That's my beef with that argument. Leave an elite, wealthy 'brain trust' in the US while outsourcing our labor to slave-conditions overseas, letting the rest here fend for themselves as Wal-Mart cashiers. (OK, that's over dramatized just a tad. ;o)

Urick Foundry is price and quality competative

"2 - Will Kerry will cave into the unions and institute more protectionist trade policies that will result in a global trade war?"

Are you anti-union, bull? If so, then I guess there's no point debating that issue with you.

MDV - Unions suck - our sister company had a drinking problem - the union guys drank their lunch. Of course the union stewards played politics - No matter the jobs are going to Mexico - because we were not price competitive for the railroads. Shoddy workmanship by that union severely hurt our reputation in the late 90's. Unions generally inhibit progress, reduce productivity, raise costs, and lower quality. When our house was built, union workers went on strike because our builder fired a shoddy siding installer. Also, the union workers were too lazy to use an outside port-a-potty - so they pissed in our basement.

"Caving in to terrorists and tyrants is not the answer."

Terrorists? No, of course not. Is kerry proposing we cave in? No. Of course not. Is either candidate proposing ways to solve the problem at the root level? I haven't heard much from Bush on that.

Kerry wants to cave into the tyrants and terrorists in Iraq - he implies he wants out ASAP

Tyrants? We do business with them daily. I know this is a point you disagree with, Bull, but that's what we do. We're a rather fickle country when it comes to business. If it makes us rich, we're OK looking a blind eye once in a while.

Point taken - but what will Kerry do different?

"The job in Iraq needs to be finished."

Well, it'd help if we had a defined job to begin with. We don't. There really is no 'finish' in site. Unless by 'finish' you mean hand over our checking accounts to Haliburton.

Gee - I guess we should just give up and leave Iraq as it is ... ignoring Saddam would have been better.

"Even France's pacivist ways did not prevent kidnapping of their citizens by terrorists."

And our bullying and oppressive dominance has not prevented kidnapping of our citizens by terrorists. Interesting.

"Who nee


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Posted: 27 Sep 04, 02:08 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Still no rational reply from Jingles.

Don't worry Jingles - Joey will protect you.


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Posted: 27 Sep 04, 08:28 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I appreciate my sleep time a lot more than responding to your absurd and ridiculous posts. Besides, you're so narrow minded that discussing things with you is like beating a dead horse. So why wake up the next day and realize I wasted my time discussing things with you. Like I haven't wasted enough time, anyways.

I'm going to tell you what's the problem with you Bullwinkle. You're one of those who don't have the ability to think outside the box, and never consider the true reality of things. It's so easy to support war when is being fought more than 10.000 miles away from you, so you don't have to worry about having your home being destroyed, or your family, relatives, and friends being shot in the crossfire. Do you know what is like to live with the constant fear of death knocking at your door? Of course not!
Bush convinced America to think that Saddam Hussein had WMD (which I need to remind you again was THE MAIN REASON WHY WE WENT TO WAR) and what was found in Iraq... NOTHING! Is America any safer now? The answer is NO, and with this invasion things have gotten a lot worse.
So sit on your couch, relax and watch Iraq being destroyed on the news without having to worry about a thing. Like you give a damn about all the innocent Iraqi citizens who have died or have been seriously injured and have lost everything they had. I would even dare to say that you don't even care about the American soldiers and their families either. Besides, people like you would completely chicken out if by any chance they would be drafted into this war, despite endlessly supporting it. Needless to say I don't think you would ever dare to send their kids into Iraq and sacrifice their lives for a lie.

If not from me, perhaps you should learn something from Joeyjojo and Jgoodm, who as I can see have a lot more brains than you do.


[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Brandon wrote: [/QUOTENAME]... and now the "best you can offer is Mr. Jingles? HA! He's... just pathetic.[/QUOTE]
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Posted: 27 Sep 04, 10:47 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

"MDV - as I recall, the GNP has expanded 3 to 4 percent in the last year. Our company has been very busy since October of last year."

That's good, but worker productivity isn't necessarily correlated to unemployment rates, or income levels for folks. It does tend to correlate to the amount of hours worked. Granted, I'm not an economics wiz, so I'm not much of an opponent on this topic.

"- Unions suck - our sister company had a drinking problem - the union guys drank their lunch"

Whoah! You're anti union because you stereotype an entire topic based on your own company? Yeesh.

"Kerry wants to cave into the tyrants and terrorists in Iraq - he implies he wants out ASAP"

As anyone should. That should be the goal of ANY occupation, no? Leave as soon as you can. For the record, I believe Kerry has been saying that it'd take at least a year to pull out.

"Point taken - but what will Kerry do different?"

Very good question. I don't know. I do know he has a hell of a lot less ties to the military industrial complex and the oil industry then the bush/cheney team does. By default, that makes it a safer bet in my book.

And yes, I suppose there's a chance he's going to make wide-sweeping favorable policies regarding the world tomatoe industry. I'll take corrupt tomatoes over corrupt war contracts and oil deeds though. ;o)

" I guess we should just give up and leave Iraq as it is ... ignoring Saddam would have been better."

No matter how many times you say this, Bull, it does not get any more valid as an actual debatable comment. The baby with the bathwater argument is just a last-resort rant. Don't stoop to using it.

"Limit punitive damages for pain and suffering and stop treating the legal system as a lotery system."

It's that simple, eh? Have you ever worked in the judicial system? Our system is a tad more complex than that.

The issue is that you can't set limits. Cases are not the same. Each one is unique. Setting limits favours only one side...typically big business. Of course Bush is for that. He'd rather focus on fining CBS for showing a tit rather than allow citizens of the country to sue over environmental disasters.

"Bush is for Tort reform - that will have a more positive effect on health care cost than "talking about doing something with our healthcare system".'

That's simply not true. Actually, if you had universal health care, the government would actually have a lot more control over liability of the medical practioners.

"What is wrong with drilling for oil in an Arctic wasteland?"

It's a waste of money...the oil reserves up there aren't much.

It's not a wasteland. It's unspoiled wilderness. It's something we're quickly running out of on this planet of ours.

Finally, sooner or later, we need to figure out ways to stop suckling the teat of oil. Money would be much better spent on figuring that out than destroying pristine wildlife habitat.

"The tree huggers (oops no trees up there) are pretty wacky and do not live in a real world."

There's a massive gap between eco-terrorists and George Bush. Kerry is in there, as are most environmentalists and sane folks. Think long-term here, Bull...the planet isn't just yours and mine.

And Bull, Jingles makes very valid points (at least in his last post).

It's not really an issue of being for or against the war. It's about being for or against the methods that GW uses on the citizens of this country to convince us that he's 'right'.

Had he originally said 'I'm invading Iraq because Saddam is very very evil. Period.' I think you'd find a lot more folks wouldn't be quite so upset with him. Granted, he has plenty of other flaws...the whole Haliburton thing is just ridiculous. It's so over-the-top that we tend to ignore it in disbelief or something.

There was a great line from the 'OutFoxed' documentary (a must-see documentar