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KillerQueen840 user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 28 Sep 04, 14:47 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Well when I can vote..but even if I could vote I wouldn't be able to decide because it's hard when your not crazy about either of them.


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Posted: 28 Sep 04, 16:54 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Well, we know Nader most likely won't win, so all he's gonna do is take away votes from Kerry, so there will be most people voting for Bush.


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Posted: 28 Sep 04, 20:09 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Yeah, even if I could vote, I wouldn't.


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Posted: 28 Sep 04, 21:18 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I'm between Nader and Kerry at this point, but in the end, voting is what really counts. Some day, we might have a country here in the US where we can actually get a 50% voter turnout ;o)



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Posted: 28 Sep 04, 21:41 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

It's sad, but I'm actually glad I'm still too young to vote...every time I try to talk about anything political with anyone here at school or back at home, I'm faced with one of two responses:
(1) My conservative family all but telling me that considering anyone other than Bush is betraying my Christian heritage and such.
(2) My liberal friends jumping down my throat because of course it's impossible to have half a brain and even consider anyone other than Kerry.

To be honest, that has me so tired of all of this, I'm not certain I would vote had I the ability to do so. I know it's important, but to be honest, it's hard to remember that it's relevant while I'm busy trying to pass Discrete Mathematics and find a job...
I will be so grateful when one day, I can bring up a political topic without being either lectured or yelled at...

I know that was long-winded, but it just has me so frustrated.

Ja ne!

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Posted: 28 Sep 04, 22:22 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I'm only 16.
I'm not very political, but I got my parents view on it. they want to vote for bush. when im old enough to vote, i probably wont.


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Posted: 28 Sep 04, 22:23 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

It's worth pointing out that voter apathy favours the two party system here in the US. The two parties know that.

If you can't decide to vote for a dem or rep, vote for someone else. The very act of giving a vote to a 3rd party helps the slow trend towards bringing them into the mix and, hopefully, eventually reforming the voting system we have in this country.

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Posted: 28 Sep 04, 22:24 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

MetzgerR wrote:

It's sad, but I'm actually glad I'm still too young to vote...every time I try to talk about anything political with anyone here at school or back at home, I'm faced with one of two responses:
(1) My conservative family all but telling me that considering anyone other than Bush is betraying my Christian heritage and such.


Making political choices based on religion is the base of fundamentalism.

The worst part is that people like that are the first ones to point fingers at all Muslims by calling them "Religious Wackos"


[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Brandon wrote: [/QUOTENAME]... and now the "best you can offer is Mr. Jingles? HA! He's... just pathetic.[/QUOTE]
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Posted: 29 Sep 04, 01:49 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

MetzgerR wrote:

It's sad, but I'm actually glad I'm still too young to vote...every time I try to talk about anything political with anyone here at school or back at home, I'm faced with one of two responses:
(1) My conservative family all but telling me that considering anyone other than Bush is betraying my Christian heritage and such.
(2) My liberal friends jumping down my throat because of course it's impossible to have half a brain and even consider anyone other than Kerry.

To be honest, that has me so tired of all of this, I'm not certain I would vote had I the ability to do so. I know it's important, but to be honest, it's hard to remember that it's relevant while I'm busy trying to pass Discrete Mathematics and find a job...
I will be so grateful when one day, I can bring up a political topic without being either lectured or yelled at...

I know that was long-winded, but it just has me so frustrated.

Ja ne!


This post upsets me very much. Just stay strong! You will find like-minded people throughout your life, so you'll break free from it all when you're able. You've got me and plenty of others in your corner. :)

100% agree with Jingles. Religious fundamentalism and politics unfortunately get tangled far too often, to say the very least. And I don't know where to begin when someone says Islam is a religion of hate, and that they're all wackos.... gah!


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Posted: 29 Sep 04, 03:48 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I am glad I am not American and have to vote in the next election. You have Kerry & Nader, who are a pair of tits, and then you have Bush.

I am sure you are ahead of me already...... ;-)


Cleveland May 24 to June 4th 2007 - I came, I saw, I fucked off home again.
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Posted: 29 Sep 04, 04:15 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

A vote for Nader is a vote for Bush! Riding alone is riding with Hitler!

And the like.


"I always knew I was a star. And now, the rest of the world seems to agree with me." - FM
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Posted: 29 Sep 04, 04:35 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Please remember that aside from the Presidential election, people need to vote for their local officials who really do make a difference and where every vote does count right down to neighborhoods in some cases.

I think far too many people only think of Presidential votes in these elections, and disgusted by their choices, they decide to not even vote, completely forgetting that there are so many important LOCAL offices and issues to vote on.

And you have to do it at the same time, so pick the lesser of two (or three) Presidential evils if necessary but please do not dismiss this opportunity to make your vote count locally.



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Posted: 29 Sep 04, 08:39 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sir GH<br><font size=1>ah yeah</font> wrote:

MetzgerR wrote:

It's sad, but I'm actually glad I'm still too young to vote...every time I try to talk about anything political with anyone here at school or back at home, I'm faced with one of two responses:
(1) My conservative family all but telling me that considering anyone other than Bush is betraying my Christian heritage and such.
(2) My liberal friends jumping down my throat because of course it's impossible to have half a brain and even consider anyone other than Kerry.

To be honest, that has me so tired of all of this, I'm not certain I would vote had I the ability to do so. I know it's important, but to be honest, it's hard to remember that it's relevant while I'm busy trying to pass Discrete Mathematics and find a job...
I will be so grateful when one day, I can bring up a political topic without being either lectured or yelled at...

I know that was long-winded, but it just has me so frustrated.

Ja ne!


This post upsets me very much. Just stay strong! You will find like-minded people throughout your life, so you'll break free from it all when you're able. You've got me and plenty of others in your corner. :)

100% agree with Jingles. Religious fundamentalism and politics unfortunately get tangled far too often, to say the very least. And I don't know where to begin when someone says Islam is a religion of hate, and that they're all wackos.... gah!


From what I've heard from Muslims who are completely against terrorism, the Quaran doesn't preach revenge or justifies the death of innocents. If so, then it's not too different from christianity.

What you need to do MetzgerR the next time your parents come up with the issue of supporting Bush and his actions because he's more of a "christian" than Kerry, is remind them that Jesus would have never justified revenge, violence or hatred. Tell them to read the New Testament once again because as far as I'm concerned Jesus always stood for forgiveness, tolerance, along with love and respect even towards the people who seem to hate you the most.

You're right Bob, many people think that Islam is a religion of hate (especially those who have no clue whatsoever about what Islam stands for). But guess what?... Muslims in the middle east also think that christianity is also a religion of hate.


[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Brandon wrote: [/QUOTENAME]... and now the "best you can offer is Mr. Jingles? HA! He's... just pathetic.[/QUOTE]
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Posted: 29 Sep 04, 10:48 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Thank God for compulsory voting.


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Posted: 29 Sep 04, 11:18 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Islamic and Christian philosophies are more or less the same... And it is quite funny to see how pacific doctrines have inspired the most horrible tragedies in world's history!!!

It doesn't matter if a doctrine is based on peaceful concepts: it's how you 'sell' it to those who don't have the means for understanding it deeply... Masses can be easily controlled if you keep them in their ignorance: the Church has done this for Centuries, Nazism and Fascism did this too and the same are doing the various Imams and Ayatollahs these days... When you deal with religions, it's easy to turn a bunch of sheep into a battallion of fanatics...

It's not a case that the most famous innovators of all times were those who tried to achieve an improvement of the general culture: Gandhi, Martin Luther King, etc, etc, etc...

Personally I've always been allergic to ALL religions, strongly believing that they are just a control device... Religions, I said, not PHILOSOPHIES which, forth most part, are conceived as sets of tools that people can use to widen their horizons...

Sorry for the personal thoughts shared in this topic...

Albyboy


And the light, turn then off my friend... And the ghosts... Well just let them in... Cause in the dark it's easier to see...
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Posted: 30 Sep 04, 01:39 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Mr.Jingles79 wrote:

You're right Bob, many people think that Islam is a religion of hate (especially those who have no clue whatsoever about what Islam stands for). But guess what?... Muslims in the middle east also think that christianity is also a religion of hate.


But the difference is, here we have the means to educate ourselves freely of other religions. I don't think such folks in the middle east have such freedom there.

If people are in the mood, this topic may end up becoming the next religious debate.

Personally I've always been allergic to ALL religions, strongly believing that they are just a control device... Religions, I said, not PHILOSOPHIES which, forth most part, are conceived as sets of tools that people can use to widen their horizons...


Superb post to this point, Albyboy, but I'll have to disagree with you on this paragraph... not all religions are control devices. Most popularized religions essentially are as such, but something like Progressive Christianity is not. Go to www.tcpc.org and you'll see a style of religion that will probably be different than what you've generally seen.

To summarize that style of religious practice, it is something where questions are valued more than answers, and where faith is therefore a journey, rather than a path that someone else has laid out for you. Science is welcomed, and not spat upon because scripture "disagrees" with it. Such attitude is completely anti-intellectual, not to mention ridiculously immature in the 21st century. You don't have to check your brain at the door (ie confessing what are essentially supernatural beliefs), and you are inclusive of everyone, free of judgement.

To me, that is an example of religion done properly. I could go on for ages about what such an open style of faith and religious education has done for me. But I'm not here to hijack this topic, so I'll just say that at my church, we are properly educated about first and second century history; and when such knowledge is there, most traditional Christian doctrines become almost laughable. So in this sense, religion, with the help of historical background, can widen horizons, just as the words of ancient philosophers can.

And what about Buddhism? The path to enlightenment, which is true compassion for all sentinent beings. That is a challenge almost insurmountable and just plain foreign to most traditionally religious people, because their religions usually create barriers between them and certain groups.


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Posted: 30 Sep 04, 06:50 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Thank you SirGH for the link... It was an interesting aknowledgement... But this IS the point I tried to achieve: maybe my poor English doesn't allow me to explain with proper words what I have in mind, but Progressive Christianity seems to me much more a philosophy rather than a religion... And so does Buddhism... I mean, religions usually STATE dogmas and rules where philosophies just SHOW you a way... There is much more freedom, in my opinion...

And I'd like to point out, although I'm not Christian, how the Gospel actually IS a "collection" of absolutely precious philosophic thoughts... Whoever had written that (or better, said those words), was surely an astonishingly talented thinker, far ahead to his times... Probably a "real" Jesus existed, who knows... I just don't like what the Church arbitrarily added to his teachings in order to turn him into what he was not...

Anyway, it's nice to share opinions with such a clever person as you seem you are, SirGH... Excuse my English once more, please... Sometimes I really feel like I had my hands tied and I can't explain what I would really mean... Sorry!!!

:-)

Albyboy


And the light, turn then off my friend... And the ghosts... Well just let them in... Cause in the dark it's easier to see...
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Posted: 30 Sep 04, 16:04 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Albyboy wrote:

Progressive Christianity seems to me much more a philosophy rather than a religion... And so does Buddhism... I mean, religions usually STATE dogmas and rules where philosophies just SHOW you a way... There is much more freedom, in my opinion...


Yes, I'll definitely agree with you there!

And I'd like to point out, although I'm not Christian, how the Gospel actually IS a "collection" of absolutely precious philosophic thoughts... Whoever had written that (or better, said those words), was surely an astonishingly talented thinker, far ahead to his times... Probably a "real" Jesus existed, who knows... I just don't like what the Church arbitrarily added to his teachings in order to turn him into what he was not...


Yeah, it's pretty certain that a huge chunk of the supposed sayings of Jesus in the bible weren't really said by him (the same goes for the Apostle Paul as well). As for most of the things that actually did happen, their original format surely hasn't survived the translations they have gone through. Consider this: Most of the original Greek manuscripts had no spaces between words, no difference between upper and lower case letters, and worst of all... no punctuation! Every word in the New Testament sourced from Greek has gone through this process at one point or another. Thus, it's a general rule that the hardest manuscripts to understand are probably the most accurate, because there were less changes to make them easier to read. Fascinating, eh?

Although almost all ministers and priests know all this stuff, they can't share this with the lay people, because the church will then definitely be giving up a lot of control over beliefs and thoughts. Most ministers maintain their private faith of the academy, and are forced to preach the old Sunday School faith. Only a very few have the courage to do otherwise. But the information is all out there, if anyone wants to look for it. It's no secret nowadays, for those who are emotionally ready to take an honest look at it.

One can only imagine the emotional trauma of a conservative seminary student who has received such information when they were not ready for it. They go there under the impression that they are just going to school to understand their faith better, but it ends up being quite the opposite.

Anyway, it's nice to share opinions with such a clever person as you seem you are, SirGH...


Same with you. :)

Excuse my English once more, please... Sometimes I really feel like I had my hands tied and I can't explain what I would really mean... Sorry!!!


You speak pretty well for my liking... it's certainly better English than many of the American posters on here!


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Posted: 30 Sep 04, 16:55 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Pro-Kerry


Comprende muchacho.
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Posted: 30 Sep 04, 19:12 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

We all love you, LiveAidQueen...but we also love elaboration. I would much rather understand your views than know them. Can you please help me with this? :)


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