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fairydandy user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 13 Oct 04, 06:17 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I am just wondering about the four tracks that Freddie sang at the Dominion in 1988 at the Time musical.
I wrote to Greg Brooks enquiring as to why these were omitted from Freddie's Solo collection, and whether or not they would appear on the Queen box set (silly question in hindsight). Anyway Greg replied:
_________________________________________________

"Hi fd

We could not find a good quality version of those recordings and even Dave Clark could not lay his hands on the masters. I did try hard to get that stuff.

No, it will not be on any Queen box – definitely not. It is not Queen.

Maybe, if we get it some day, we’ll offer it on a future FM product?

Does anyone have a GREAT quality version?

Regards

GB"
_________________________________________________

I think most of us probably have three (It's In Everyone Of Us, In My Defence and Born To Rock and Roll)of the four tracks in MP3 format. Two of mine are in poor condition, and one in much better condition (It's In Everyone Of Us)...anyway, do soundboard copies of all four tracks actually exist anywhere, or at least in the quality of It's In Everyone Of Us?

pma user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 13 Oct 04, 06:20 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I'll just say YES and pretend that I have raw sbd version of the whole performance.


"I think now I can make love to your anus without making God angry"



Registered: Friday, January 18, 2002



fairydandy user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 13 Oct 04, 06:28 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

pma<br><font size=1>Chat Op. #3</font> wrote:

I'll just say YES and pretend that I have raw sbd version of the whole performance.


Why say anything, if you have nothing to say?

John S Stuart user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 13 Oct 04, 07:36 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Fairydandy: "I am just wondering about the four tracks that Freddie sang at the Dominion in 1988 at the Time musical".

First: this has been asked here many times before.

Second: Sorry to be rude, or to burst any bubbles, but Greg was being a diplomat. (Others may say a downright liar, but I am not so inclined). I often amaze at how Queen fans do not accept subtle hints, yet complain like bugg*ry when hit over the head with a metaphorical sledgehammer.

Of course the tracks exist in perfect soundboard quality, but the legistics of a public release are a virtual minefield of copyright entanglements.

The tracks do not belong to Queen or Queen productions. They belong to Dave Clark. Permission would have to drawn up between the lawyers of Dave Clark, Cliff Richard, The estate of Freddie Mercury and Queen Productions. The wranglings and cost involved made the tracks box-set prohibitive. End of Story.

Now once upon a time Greg used to say as much, but then the poor guy was always hit with smart-Alex replies like "What if Dave Clark died", or "Cliff Richard was blackmailed" and other such childish none-sense.

Therefore over the past four or so years it has just evolved into an easier and quicker explanation to say that "They do not exist".

I also suggest it is a bad idea to send Greg your MP3's - because if they cannot release the original, then there is no chance that yours would ever go further than his recycle bin.





"Listen to them. Children of the night. What music they make."
fairydandy user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 13 Oct 04, 08:32 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

John S Stuart wrote:

Fairydandy: "I am just wondering about the four tracks that Freddie sang at the Dominion in 1988 at the Time musical".

First: this has been asked here many times before.

Second: Sorry to be rude, or to burst any bubbles, but Greg was being a diplomat. (Others may say a downright liar, but I am not so inclined). I often amaze at how Queen fans do not accept subtle hints, yet complain like bugg*ry when hit over the head with a metaphorical sledgehammer.

Of course the tracks exist in perfect soundboard quality, but the legistics of a public release are a virtual minefield of copyright entanglements.

The tracks do not belong to Queen or Queen productions. They belong to Dave Clark. Permission would have to drawn up between the lawyers of Dave Clark, Cliff Richard, The estate of Freddie Mercury and Queen Productions. The wranglings and cost involved made the tracks box-set prohibitive. End of Story.

Now once upon a time Greg used to say as much, but then the poor guy was always hit with smart-Alex replies like "What if Dave Clark died", or "Cliff Richard was blackmailed" and other such childish none-sense.

Therefore over the past four or so years it has just evolved into an easier and quicker explanation to say that "They do not exist".

I also suggest it is a bad idea to send Greg your MP3's - because if they cannot release the original, then there is no chance that yours would ever go further than his recycle bin.




First. I didn't know it had been asked here before. Is it some kind of a rule that we can only ask new questions here?
Second. I will point Greg to your reply, to see if that is indeed the case.
Third. I have no intention of sending Greg anything in MP3 format, (or any format) and never did have.
Forth. Thanks for your reply, I bow down to your amazing Queen knowledge, even if do come across as an arrogant wanker. ;-)

fairydandy user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 13 Oct 04, 08:34 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

..Unless of course you are Greg? ;-)

Penis - Vagina user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 13 Oct 04, 09:24 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Stuart lives in his own little dreamworld. You got your answer from Greg, "nuff said" as the children say.

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Posted: 13 Oct 04, 09:30 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

$1241.60: Why is it that everybody thinks they are a bloo*y expert? So what exactly was YOUR contribution to the FM boxset?

OK. Let's see, I'll go listen to the unreleased soundboard version - while you, Fairydandy and Greg argue amongst yourselves about it's existence.

Besides, I am NOT the ONLY one with this superior quality material in this 'zone, but if others wish to remain in the "closet", then it is not up to me to disclose, so perhaps you are correct, I do live "in... (my) ...own little dreamworld", but it is a world that you will never be part of.


"Listen to them. Children of the night. What music they make."
Penis - Vagina user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 13 Oct 04, 11:15 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

My contribution was $156 and lots of love. Most of us here are Queen fans. We like to share stuff, commiserate about Queen Productions, help out each other in regards to items which actually exist for all of us. I can't quite figure out what your purpose is here other than to toy with people, brag, act like some sort of God. Whether you're the Zone's biggest liar or biggest dick is up for debate, but either way you're quite transparent.

fairydandy user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 13 Oct 04, 11:37 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

John S Stuart wrote:

$1241.60: Why is it that everybody thinks they are a bloo*y expert? So what exactly was YOUR contribution to the FM boxset?

OK. Let's see, I'll go listen to the unreleased soundboard version - while you, Fairydandy and Greg argue amongst yourselves about it's existence.

Besides, I am NOT the ONLY one with this superior quality material in this 'zone, but if others wish to remain in the "closet", then it is not up to me to disclose, so perhaps you are correct, I do live "in... (my) ...own little dreamworld", but it is a world that you will never be part of.


Now where exactly have I been "arguing" about the existence of this material? I asked a civil question, and that was "do soundboard copies of all four tracks actually exist anywhere?"
Jeeeesus bloody christ, some people.

John S Stuart user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 13 Oct 04, 12:34 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

$1241.60: "I can't quite figure out what your purpose is here other than to toy with people, brag, act like some sort of God. Whether you're the Zone's biggest liar or biggest dick is up for debate, but either way you're quite transparent".

I had no other purpose than answer a simple question. I was neither rude or insulting, nor did I lie or be a dick about it. I answered in clear simple terms, the best way I knew how. Whether YOU believe the answer or not is your perogative.

If I was rude it was not in my original reply, but surprisingly enough, in reply to your own rudeness. So I do not expect that you can complain too much about that.

At least I am honest enough NOT to hide behind some silly name, or make snide or negative comments each time a 'zoner asks a simple question.

Finally; you have no idea what I have shared or not, so please take your preaching and your biting envy and misinformation elsewhere.

Fairydandy: "argue" was an expression for the benefit of $1241.60. It was not meant to be taken literally.


"Listen to them. Children of the night. What music they make."
AC user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 13 Oct 04, 12:39 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

$1241.60 wrote:

My contribution was $156 and lots of love. Most of us here are Queen fans. We like to share stuff, commiserate about Queen Productions, help out each other in regards to items which actually exist for all of us. I can't quite figure out what your purpose is here other than to toy with people, brag, act like some sort of God. Whether you're the Zone's biggest liar or biggest dick is up for debate, but either way you're quite transparent.


Sorry, but I think you are doing something wrong. I understand your point of view about sharing, you know, but I think there's no use in attacking John S Stuart in this way.
You're right if you say that his post was too rude and not adeguated to the situation. But calling him a liar, it's really stupid for me. He has proved his knowledge many times (and not only here, obviously) and I really like to read his posts because usually I find there something new and interesting about Queen and their music (I could say the same thing about other posters too). I hope I will be able to read them again in the future.
About calling him a dick... well, it's your opinion... you have my permission :-)


That time will come, one day you'll see that i'll be dead and you will laugh!
Adam Baboolal user not visiting Queenzone.com
Adam Baboolal
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Posted: 13 Oct 04, 15:07 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Hold on a minute...

John S Stuart wrote:


Therefore over the past four or so years it has just evolved into an easier and quicker explanation to say that "They do not exist".



John, where does it say "They do not exist?" In fact, Greg's reply points out the opposite opinion, "Maybe, if we get it some day, we’ll offer it on a future FM product?" Now, that's pretty obvious that he acknowledges their existence.

So guys, let's not fight about it, huh? John, a simpler response, they do exist but are caught up in too many legal entanglements for it to be used, would suffice.

Peace,
Adam.

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Posted: 13 Oct 04, 16:38 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

John S Stuart wrote:


The tracks do not belong to Queen or Queen productions. They belong to Dave Clark. Permission would have to drawn up between the lawyers of Dave Clark, Cliff Richard, The estate of Freddie Mercury and Queen Productions. The wranglings and cost involved made the tracks box-set prohibitive. End of Story.


Now, for the sake of those of us who know little about copyright law (Hi Kes), I assume that these tracks do not fall into the same category as the the Time studio tracks (that were released on the box set) because, well, they were performed live at a benefit performance.

I also assume that this is the reason that Dave Clark owns the rights, and since no previous agreement was ever hashed out, trying to get Freddie's estate, Dave Clark, and Sir Cliff to agree on a new deal that gives QP an incentive to put it out is not cost effective.




DJ's the man we love the most
John S Stuart user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 13 Oct 04, 17:24 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Adam: "John, where does it say "They do not exist?" In fact, Greg's reply points out the opposite opinion, "Maybe, if we get it some day, we’ll offer it on a future FM product?" Now, that's pretty obvious that he acknowledges their existence".

Fair point. But then again, why would Greg ask "Does anyone have a GREAT quality version?", if QP had access to the master tapes?

Zeni the Wet Sprocket: "Now, for the sake of those of us who know little about copyright law... I assume that these tracks do not fall into the same category as the the Time studio tracks (that were released on the box set) because, well, they were performed live at a benefit performance.

Yes, that is correct. Also the studio tracks were officially released in the first place. (Remixes were also courtesy of the Dave Clark ownership).

Adam: "...a simpler response, they do exist but are caught up in too many legal entanglements for it to be used, would suffice".

AC: "About calling him a dick... well, it's your opinion... you have my permission :-)"

Pardon me - I am now a dick because I responed correctly to an other 'zoners question? I do not think my original reply was either insultive or over the top. However, if you guys believe I am a dick for responding to this question, why should I respond to others?

Is it any wonder that regular zoners are being chased away?



"Listen to them. Children of the night. What music they make."
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Posted: 13 Oct 04, 17:50 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I e mailed Greg back as I said I would and this is the EXACT message I sent.
_________________________________________________

Hi again Greg
Sorry to be a pain, but I have been asking on Queenzone about the Time tracks and a certain Mr Stuart, says that you know that these tracks exist, but it is easier to give the answer you gave me.
http://www.queenzone.com/queenzone/forumnew/forum_topic_view.aspx?Q=404633

I'm not trying to involve you in any disputes, I was just asking a civil question that's all...(and if it is easier for you to respond how you did, I would understand that too)
Whatever ....(hurry up with that boxed set!!) ;-)
Regards
fd
_________________________________________________

Here is Greg's exact reply (please note he gives me permission to reprint it)
_________________________________________________

Hello fd

What I told you is the honest truth. To the best of my memory that is exactly what happened. I would have loved to include it, but we simply could not find a good enough copy. I still have somewhere the fax from Dave Clark. I did not say that for the fun of it, but because that’s what happened. I know this because I WAS THERE. John Stuart was 400 miles away!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don’t take any notice of the John Stuarts of this world. He was not there present when DC faxed me. He was not at all involved. He is purely guessing. I don’t know why, but JS seems STILL to have an enormous chip on his shoulder, and seems STILL to want to stir up problems when he can – instead of remaining quiet because he does not know the facts. Only us that worked on it know why that material could not feature.

There is no dark secret, fd, I honestly assure you of that. JS is best avoided if all he can do is lead you down dead-end roads and offer you wrong information.

There are a quite a few people out there like him – that sit at home hundreds of miles from where these things are put together, guessing WRONGLY about why things happen and don’t happen. I simply don’t understand the mentality of such individuals.

It would be like me sitting here in Essex, hundreds of miles from Scotland, guessing at why JS does what he does, and the reasons for such and such. I don’t know, so I don’t guess, I just keep my mouth shut and talk about what I DO know. He should do the same. All he’s doing by telling you things like that, is causing unnecessary, unhelpful misinformation.

There is a lot of myth around these days, about Queen, and what does and does not exist – a lot of crap is spoken, written, suggested, and it starts exactly like this – by people spouting off about things they have clearly no idea about. I’m sure you know this.

I hope you get my point fd. It really irritates me when fans like you ask a simple and reasonable question, only to be told utter shit.

YES, we know these tracks exist. Did I say they did not exist? NO I did not. I said they DO exist, but we could not get them AT THAT TIME.

I also said we might use that material on a future FM project IF IF IF Dave Clark provides a decent recording, so CLEARLY I am not denying we know they exist – am I?

TWATISH comments like his are not helpful fd. Suggest you go to a more knowledgeable source – someone who does not have an ask to grind.

I hope this sheds light on this for you. I stand by my comments. What I said was 100% accurate, while what John St guessed at, was 100% inaccurate.

DO PLEASE PRINT THIS ON YOUR SITE

Best regards

GB
_________________________________________________

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Posted: 13 Oct 04, 18:35 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Thanks Greg: Nice to say some nice words about you to. But let's cut to the chase.

"YES, we know these tracks exist... IF Dave Clark provides a decent recording, so CLEARLY I am not denying we know they exist..."

That's exactly what I said. They are in the ownership of Dave Clark. I have no axe to grind, nor chip on my shoulder. Nor did I "Guess" incorrectly. Apart from personality clashes, nothing I reported was inaccurate.

I agree that Greg was not my source, but I ask again, why would he seek out tapes, that QP already have access to?

Greg says: "I don’t know why, but JS seems STILL to have an enormous chip on his shoulder, and seems STILL to want to stir up problems when he can"

Pardon me - QP wish to demonise me because I told tales out of school? If you guys have any sense - you go figure. All I did was honestly answer a question to the best of my knowledge. How is this stirring up problems - and why does Greg go out of his way to create such a negaative impression?

Sorry to be a such a pain in the ass here, but as far as I can see, I was correct, and although not too happy about it, Greg has just vindicated my story.

Wherein is my crime here gentlemen?




"Listen to them. Children of the night. What music they make."
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Posted: 13 Oct 04, 18:38 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

As a postscript, my source was Dave Clark himself, not QP - and Cliff has excellent copies also.

Queen Productions are not the only company to hold any aces.


"Listen to them. Children of the night. What music they make."
Penis - Vagina user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 13 Oct 04, 18:39 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Wow! Cheers to Greg for coming through with the real story! Thanks for posting that, fairydandy :)

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Posted: 13 Oct 04, 18:39 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

So apparently QP did not have a good copy of the concert, but at some point in time John stuart had a soundboard copy.

I am inclined to believe John for these reasons:

If the horrid sound-quality Wreckage concert could be included on the FM box sets, surely less than perfect quality of FM's last performance would have been OK for the FM box set.

I believe the apparent feud between John and QP was started when his Wreckage Tapes were "lost" by QP?

The Queen machine has a reputation for half truths, like ... Ghost of a Smile is a pirated release.


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