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John S Stuart user not visiting Queenzone.com
John S Stuart
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Posted: 13 Oct 04, 18:57 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Have a look at the "Time" thread.

http://www.queenzone.com/queenzone/forumnew/forum_topic_view.aspx?Q=404633

Although I honestly answered this question correctly, and others in this zone also have the same excellent quality versions, it seems that Greg still wants to villify me in public for spreading this information.

Any ideas why this should be so, when in fact all I did was report the truth?

And why is it that so many zoner's are hoping that I take a fall over this? All I ever did was help you guys out. I do not see that as "stirring" things up, or "having a chip on my shoulder" But then again, perhaps it is me that is out of touch, as I have never known QP or Greg to take such a vitriolic stance before.

As the tag-line to a televison programme once read: "The truth is out there..."


"Listen to them. Children of the night. What music they make."
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Posted: 13 Oct 04, 19:09 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I don't understand the history here John to be honest, but for my part in all of this, it was your reply (where you seemed to be implying) that Greg had said "they do not exist" that caused me the problem.

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Posted: 13 Oct 04, 19:28 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

John, I wouldnt worry about it. I've enjoyed many of your posts here. As for Greg whatsisname, here's hoping that he can do a better job with the proposed updating of his "Queen Live - A Concert Documentary". A book full of inaccuracies - and this all from a man "supposedly" in the know.

Any way,

Peace to you,

Dave


"Normally i can't dance to save my life.

But as soon as I step in dog shit, I can moonwalk better than Michael Jackson."
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Posted: 13 Oct 04, 19:43 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

yes I agree John, I'm with you :) I think it is a million times better to help with any information (and I am sure that you only give the kind of information you are sure about) than writing empty topics (no, I dont mean the Time thread, but most of you know which ones I mean)

Thanks in advance for every comment and help you give in the future!



Special thanks to Arif Mardin who arranged and produced some hot and spacey horns on "Staying Power" ;-)
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Posted: 13 Oct 04, 19:56 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

fairydandy wrote:

I don't understand the history here John to be honest, but for my part in all of this, it was your reply (where you seemed to be implying) that Greg had said "they do not exist" that caused me the problem.


FD, I think that you misinterpreted what John had actually said. His actual quote was "Therefore over the past four or so years it has just evolved into an easier and quicker explanation to say that "They do not exist"." To me he was just saying that that was the standard reply from QP. Its like when people continually ask about Hangman - and I know that Greg has said there is no studio version of that song - but according to this site http://challenger.hop.ru/queen/bootleggers.shtml its says that there is a quality version recorded by the BBC. Now I dont know if this is true either, but I have a funny feeling that if I was to ask someone at QP about this the "they do not exist" reply would be forthcoming.

And peace to you as well

Dave


"Normally i can't dance to save my life.

But as soon as I step in dog shit, I can moonwalk better than Michael Jackson."
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Posted: 13 Oct 04, 20:07 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I hate taking sides because I dont know either of you, and I dont want to hurt anyones feelings.
So Im with you John. However, I must point out that if another thread is started in favour of GB, then Ill be with him, but just so you know, Ill really be with you, even though he'll think I'm with him. Unless he reads this of course and then that really buggers things up.

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Posted: 13 Oct 04, 20:16 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Mr Mercury wrote:

fairydandy wrote:

I don't understand the history here John to be honest, but for my part in all of this, it was your reply (where you seemed to be implying) that Greg had said "they do not exist" that caused me the problem.


FD, I think that you misinterpreted what John had actually said. His actual quote was "Therefore over the past four or so years it has just evolved into an easier and quicker explanation to say that "They do not exist"." To me he was just saying that that was the standard reply from QP. Its like when people continually ask about Hangman - and I know that Greg has said there is no studio version of that song - but according to this site http://challenger.hop.ru/queen/bootleggers.shtml its says that there is a quality version recorded by the BBC. Now I dont know if this is true either, but I have a funny feeling that if I was to ask someone at QP about this the "they do not exist" reply would be forthcoming.

And peace to you as well

Dave


John rather gave the impression that I was fobbed off with the standard response (that they do not exist, and said that Greg was being a diplomat), I merely asked Greg if that was the case.
I have innocently stepped into a minefield, but all I wanted to know was if I am going to get the bloody tracks before I die or not.
What the hell is the point of keeping these under wraps if we can all get to hear them...life is too short.

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Posted: 13 Oct 04, 20:30 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Hey guys...

Can someone please tell me who Greg Brooks is ?

Please don't say "oh, he's Queens's Archievist". I KNOW that already, what i want to know is who he is exactly. WHAT does he do exactly besides listen to all the old archieved material and help find rare stuff for the new dvd issues?

I would like some coherent details on this gentlemen please...anyone have some insights? Anyone here meet him? Please help me put my curiousity to rest...all i ever hear when i ask is the "he's Queen's Archeivist" jazz. IS he on the QP payroll? Is he legit? What's the story??

Thanks in advance for any insight you can give me.

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Posted: 13 Oct 04, 21:05 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

They are pissed
But a lot of fans still aint gonna hear these goodies >
<


MY GOD spell it write.
YourValentine user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 13 Oct 04, 21:34 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Greg Brook's email to fairydandy is just incredible. I hope QP does not feel represented by this vindictive and insulting email! Nobody ever said there was a "dark secret" - John just said there was a soundboard quality recording available while Greg says he was unable to find it - his email is overreacting to say the least. There is no "myth", no conspiracy theory or anything like this, just an archivist who is for some reason freaking out by the idea he did not find all available material for the Freddie box.


What about the Freddie/Michael Jackson tracks? They are not on the Freddie box, either. Probably for the same reason John suggested for the Dominion songs: copy right problems. Now, if Greg Brooks would claim he was unable to track them down - well, that would be just as unlikely as his claim of being unable to get a copy of the Dominion tracks: if he did not find them, he just did not ask the right people. And as Mike pointed out correctly in the other thread: considering the quality of the Wreckage recordings, sound quality cannot have been the reason to exclude such a historic (Freddie's last live performance)recording from the box.




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Posted: 13 Oct 04, 22:16 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Amen YV

It is amazing how an innocent little question exploded into an inferno, all because it was suggested that Greg might have used a little white lie to keep an answer simple.


Roger: I like it. If you don't. Sod you!



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Posted: 14 Oct 04, 00:21 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

There's obviously a history between Greg & John that most of us will never know.

I have a hunch though...

Greg, as the almighty appointed Queen archivist, is constantly tested and challenged by Queen fans, well-meaning Queen fans and otherwise. Greg has proven himself to hardly be bulletproof in terms of factual accuracy (I still feel ripped off by is Queen Live book), but that's his own fault. It seems to me that any time someone comes along and points out some fact or recording which has previously slipped under his radar, he takes offense and then tries to cover his ass by myriad irrelevant details like availability etc. Bottom line: He's embarrassed, but only at his own laziness. I've said it before & I'll say it again - he's got no one to blame but himself, and that's what's so embarrassing to him. In this case, specifically, it sounds like he's rather red-faced about not having found these recordings in time for the Mercury boxed set, which would have been the ideal venue for their inclusion.

Devout Queen fans have been trying to lend their collective expertise to Greg for years, but have routinely received icy, skeptical, haughty responses. No wonder this one had icicles dangling from it as well.

Let Brooks broil in his own juices - he's earned it.


...gonna use my prisoners, gonna give 'em the business...
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Posted: 14 Oct 04, 01:01 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Mr Mercury wrote:

As for Greg whatsisname, here's hoping that he can do a better job with the proposed updating of his "Queen Live - A Concert Documentary". A book full of inaccuracies


An understatement that is. I submitted over 200 corrections to him for the revised book. Let's see how many of them make the final cut.


"The more generous you are with your music, the more it comes back to you." -- Dan Lampinski



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Posted: 14 Oct 04, 02:19 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

There's an obvious antipathy between John and Greg and that's why it's not wise to take any side here. John, you know I always supported you in the past but in some cases it was a mistake and I learnt my lesson - I'm no more sticking my nose into things that are not business.

So who knows where the truth is. Anyway, Greg's reaction went too far, it was pretty far from being polite. And Greg has more reasons to lie than John.

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Posted: 14 Oct 04, 06:10 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

GonnaUseMyPrisoners: "There's obviously a history between Greg & John that most of us will never know..."

Mr Scully: "There's an obvious antipathy between John and Greg..."

Thanks for the support all. (That was a genuine "thank-you" and not a sarcasm!). The truth is, from this side, I have no problems with Greg. He is the official archivist who works for Queen Productions, and as such has to tow a party-line.

He is in a position to know much more about Queen releases than I do, and I concede to his superior knowledge in this area. I honestly have no issues here.

But on the other-hand, I have no such restriction, and I have a freedom to say what I believe to be true, without the sanctions of the Queen machine. This kind of makes me a loose cannon. It does not make what I say inaccurate, but it is said without the sanction of official permission.

In the end, that "position" is bound to cause me some grief. However, at the end of the day, I find it is a price worth paying.




"Listen to them. Children of the night. What music they make."
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Posted: 14 Oct 04, 08:03 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sir GH<br><font size=1>ah yeah</font> wrote:

Mr Mercury wrote:

As for Greg whatsisname, here's hoping that he can do a better job with the proposed updating of his "Queen Live - A Concert Documentary". A book full of inaccuracies


An understatement that is. I submitted over 200 corrections to him for the revised book. Let's see how many of them make the final cut.


Sir GH, I do hope that you remembered to tell him that the support band for the gig at Edinburgh Ingliston 1982 was infact the band Heart and not, as he stated in his book, Teardrop Explodes. I know because I was actually there, as apparently was Fatty.


"Normally i can't dance to save my life.

But as soon as I step in dog shit, I can moonwalk better than Michael Jackson."
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Posted: 14 Oct 04, 12:37 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

It`s my turn to put my two cents here:

It`s not a secret that I don`t like either John or Greg, and I think people who know me are aware of that.

Having said so, I`m not the kind of guy who`d start to say now things against them, because it`d be completely unfair.

John had a good point in saying that others can be in a similar position as he is but don`t share that with anyone. And nobody`s forcing him to post here what he has said before about unreleased tracks etc. So that says a lot about him (positively).

About Greg, I`ve never read the book and I don`t know about rare concerts or stuff like that, but I think it`s also unfair to say that his book is full of mistakes. I`d actually be very surprised if over 20, or even 10 percent, is catually wrong. And even in that case, that book was (correct me if I`m wrong) the "Mamma" of many modern Queen "scholar researches". It`s the same as Beatles: if you check their records there are flat notes here and there, sometimes piano played a chord different that it was supposed to, sometimes you hear some noises.... but thanks to them there`s a lot of the rest (because it`s not all anyway).


John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
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Posted: 14 Oct 04, 12:42 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

from i've read in this topic greg books is a real son of a bitch.

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Posted: 14 Oct 04, 16:33 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



Greg's response gets angrier the longer he keeps typing, which reflects *AN* aspect of his personality - he's the focus of a great deal of frustration about the time taken to issue the box sets, which is probably outside his control anyway, and it's easy to see why a *PERCEIVED* slight such as JSS' remarks would upset. However, the email should have been edited before being sent.

Enough people have already pointed out that FD & JSS were not actually contradicting each other - which is all in the semantics.

I'm a little surprised that Greg feels JSS is out of order, given the way he *APPEARS* to have been treated by QP. I knew about the Ibex thing, but didn't realise there was a BBC session that he was "ripped off" (my words) as well...

Given that Greg's public utterances are semi-sarcastic deliberate misunderstandings of random questions about album tracks and how good Jazz is, and JSS' widen my knowledge of what does and does not exist....I'll make no apologies for continuing to play close attention to JSS.

Finally, we may now feel that the FM box was incomplete, but it mad no such claims, and should, in my view, still be considered a superb document of FM's solo work.

And I didn't fucking swear once...


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Posted: 14 Oct 04, 17:36 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The initial response that John gave to me can indeed be read in two ways. My interpretation of it was sent back to Greg (along with the URL to the topic)to ask what he made of the comments.
Ok, so Greg got a bit angry, it happens, we all do it and press 'send' when maybe we should switch off. I admit to being quite angry at JSS's rather superior tones in his initial reply myself.
I can't help but think that there is a lot more to this than meets the eye though, and this was perhaps just was the straw that broke the camel's back so to speak.

So anyway, the tracks exist, but no we can't have them...that's a bloody shame. ;-(