Forums > Queen - Serious Discussion > Ogre Battle Guitar Part

forum rss feed
Author

Farlander user not visiting Queenzone.com

Bohemian: 662 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 19 Oct 04, 10:36 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The guitar riff in the very beginning of Ogre Battle (after the backwards intro). Is that done by all down strokes or alternating down and up? It seems too fast for all down, but alternating is awkward becase of the three note pattern the notes are in.

juls user not visiting Queenzone.com

Bohemian: 158 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 19 Oct 04, 11:07 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

it is stroke down twice, when the third tone of the triplet comes he plays it with the left hand only per hammer-on

indeed a very fast pattern



Special thanks to Arif Mardin who arranged and produced some hot and spacey horns on "Staying Power" ;-)
Koolkikiland user not visiting Queenzone.com

Champion: 71 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 19 Oct 04, 12:16 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I've tried it both ways - with downstrokes and the hammer-on on the third note as well as alternating up and down through the entire sequence.

Though it took longer to get the hang of, I personally like the up and down alternating better because you get a better attack on the last note of the triplets.

To me, it sounds like that's the way Brian plays it.

Dave


"Some day, one day. . . "

Farlander user not visiting Queenzone.com

Bohemian: 662 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 19 Oct 04, 13:15 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Yes, I don't think that last note is a hammer-on. What about two downs follwed by an up?

juls user not visiting Queenzone.com

Bohemian: 158 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 19 Oct 04, 13:57 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

two downs and one up was my first thought, but after trying to play it I found it more complicated than playing it with hammer-on.
just like on the beginning of it's late... ( a lick i love to play)


Special thanks to Arif Mardin who arranged and produced some hot and spacey horns on "Staying Power" ;-)
Penis - Vagina user not visiting Queenzone.com

Deity: 4230 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 19 Oct 04, 14:09 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Forgive the off-topic post, but I have to say it sounds like you guys would be awesome at masturbation.

brENsKi user not visiting Queenzone.com
How shall we f**k off, Oh Lord
brENsKi
Deity: 8088 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 19 Oct 04, 15:13 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

i don't think you can w**k
two downs, then one up - that's got to hurt, and what aout this "hammer on" stuff...scary


go deo na h√Čireann
artist_nine user not visiting Queenzone.com
artist_nine
Bohemian: 124 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 19 Oct 04, 15:22 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

It looks like Brian is using hammer-ons during the Hammersmith gig in 1975.

Farlander user not visiting Queenzone.com

Bohemian: 662 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 19 Oct 04, 15:57 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Isn't that version significantly faster than the studio version?

artist_nine user not visiting Queenzone.com
artist_nine
Bohemian: 124 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 19 Oct 04, 16:17 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Ok, I checked those two versions with a metronome and the live version was approximately 110 Beats Per Minute (quarter notes) and the version on Queen II was about 108 BPM. So practically there is no difference between these two.

Bohardy user not visiting Queenzone.com

Deity: 2447 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 19 Oct 04, 20:16 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Bizarrely, pretty much the only combination of strokes yet to be mentioned is what to me is the obvious answer.

Down-Up-Down, Down-Up-Down, Down-Up-Down, Down-Up-Down, Down-Up-Down, Down, Down.

Ther's no way that the G is a hammer-on. That would involve hammering on to the 3rd fret from nowhere, and doing that just doesn't give the necessary attack.

The fastest logical way of playing the two A5s is to use Down-Up. And to get from the second A5 to the G involves moving your picking-hand UP the strings. And to then get from the G to the A5 involves moving your picking-hand DOWN the strings, so if you use an upstroke for the second A5 and a downstroke for the G (and who ever uses an upstroke for a single note on one string anyway?!) your hand's moving in the right direction in preparation for the next stroke/chord.

I swear my way's correct. I remember for years trying to play it all downstrokes, and then one day discovering the above method and it suddenly it was 10 times easier and all made sense.

Try it, you'll like it.


Gullibility and credulity are considered undesirable qualities in every department of human life -- except religion.
Farlander user not visiting Queenzone.com

Bohemian: 662 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 19 Oct 04, 20:41 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sorry, artist_nine, I must have been thinking of something else.

Borhardy, you're right - that does make sense, and it should be the most obvious way. I'll give it a try later and see how it feels.

artist_nine user not visiting Queenzone.com
artist_nine
Bohemian: 124 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 20 Oct 04, 08:05 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Check out the Hammersmith gig video (1975). I don't know how Brian achieves that kind of an attack in the sound by using hammer-ons, but that's what it looks to me he is doing. But then again, my eyes could be deceiving me... could someone else who has access to the video footage please give a second opinion. Or maybe someone could ask Brian directly? I wonder if he'd give an answer....

Bohardy user not visiting Queenzone.com

Deity: 2447 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 20 Oct 04, 13:58 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I'll check the vid later on tonight, but unless there's a very clear close-up of his right hand, it'll be pretty much impossible to see exactly what he's doing.

Whether he's hammering on the G or not, his left hand will be doing exactly the same thing.


Gullibility and credulity are considered undesirable qualities in every department of human life -- except religion.
Farlander user not visiting Queenzone.com

Bohemian: 662 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 20 Oct 04, 14:03 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Well, I tried your Down Up Down, Down Up Down, last night. I think it may be the answer. I'll have to work with it a while, though, to see how it works after becoming more familiar with it.

Thanks for the input, everyone.

crowley user not visiting Queenzone.com

Champion: 80 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 20 Oct 04, 15:27 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Goddamit I guess I must agree with Deacon Fan Revisited - "down up down up..." :)

Bohardy user not visiting Queenzone.com

Deity: 2447 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 20 Oct 04, 19:09 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Well I'm now one big mass of confusedness.

I just checked out the Hammersmith video, and there's 2 moments (the first and last time the riff-proper is played) where you can get a half-decent look at Bri's left hand.

Initially I was convinced that the first clearly showed the pattern I was talking about, and that by the end of the song it looked like Bri actually WAS using the hammer-on with two downstrokes method as Juls put forward and I pooh-poohed.

After repeated viewings and testing it out on my electric (previously I just used my acoustic) I think I'm gonna have to entirely retract my previous comments and say that it appears (at least live) Bri does use down-down-hammer-on. There isn't actually that much attack to the G (again, at Hammersmith), and in fact it's not really that clear at all, reinforcing the hammer-on idea.

Still, the method I spent so long waffling on about does make sense, and gives the riff more bite, and is fun to play.

I hate being wrong.


Gullibility and credulity are considered undesirable qualities in every department of human life -- except religion.
juls user not visiting Queenzone.com

Bohemian: 158 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 20 Oct 04, 19:53 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Oh Bohardy,

no problem at all! I love topics like this, and I am open for every new way of playing. Ogre Battle is not the easiest riff of Queen, it is quite fast (the triplets raise the speed too) and imagine it would be played in Bb, how hard it would be to play.
The way you play it is way "cleaner" and more accurate than using a simplified hammer-on version. But Brian is often using hammer-ons, so that is why I thought it is indeed played this way.



Special thanks to Arif Mardin who arranged and produced some hot and spacey horns on "Staying Power" ;-)
The Real Wizard user not visiting Queenzone.com
The Real Wizard
Deity: 18625 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 21 Oct 04, 01:39 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I think I play it with the G being hammered on. I don't really consciously think about my right hand! But if not, then I'll just pick alternately. I usually pick that way, regardless of the time signature of a song. 99% of the time, I'm not the least bit worried about what my picking hand is doing.

Bohardy wrote:

Ther's no way that the G is a hammer-on. That would involve hammering on to the 3rd fret from nowhere, and doing that just doesn't give the necessary attack.


Then I guess you're just not hammering on hard enough... :) Anything can be hammered on.


"The more generous you are with your music, the more it comes back to you." -- Dan Lampinski



http://www.queenlive.ca
Farlander user not visiting Queenzone.com

Bohemian: 662 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 21 Oct 04, 10:20 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Hmm...more to think about here, I guess. I will have to give the studio version a closer listen, I think.

Actually, this WOULD be a really good question for Brian's Soapbox, but it doesn't seem that he bothers to answer these kinds of questions there.