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SilverShoes user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 01 Nov 04, 23:50 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I was watching Live At The Rainbow today, and it occurred to me to ask a couple questions: how much work was done on this after the fact? During Ogre Battle, it sounds like there's more than three voices in some bits. I know John used to sing backup sometimes, but even still, it sounds like they may have, uh, sweetened the vocals in a couple places.

Also, what's the deal with the Father To Son/Keep Yourself Alive/Liar medley. In the first place, I swear I hear an edit during Father To Son, right after the first chorus, it sounds like something was cut out.

Then, where it goes into the bit where it should be the quiet bit of Freddie singing and playing piano, it instead segues into Roger's drum solo (which in turn goes into the post drum solo bit in Keep Yourself Alive). Is that how it was actually played? Here again, the transistion seems a bit suspect, as if they cut another bit out.

During Liar, I think I hear another edit as well?

Anyone know how faithfully this video reproduces what was actually played on that particularly evening?




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Posted: 02 Nov 04, 03:39 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Rainbow is heavily overdubbed. You can also hear that on Now I'm here on GVHI. Dunno why, though. There's been a thread on that topic before, I seem to remember.


Guten Tag und Guten Abend !!! We had a great time in Cologne. Drinking beer in the sunshine beside the Mighty Rhein brought back many memories for me..... (Brian May, 2004)
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Posted: 02 Nov 04, 03:42 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

http://www.queenzone.com/queenzone/forumnew/forum_topic_view.aspx?Q=400935


Guten Tag und Guten Abend !!! We had a great time in Cologne. Drinking beer in the sunshine beside the Mighty Rhein brought back many memories for me..... (Brian May, 2004)
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Posted: 02 Nov 04, 06:52 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Another myth.... Live At The Rainbow ISN'T heavily overdubbed. That whole issue arose as people don't believe they were capable of such a great performance so early on (Brian has stated that he was at his peak as a guitarist in '74) & the fact that the footage is cut from both nights so some of the footage doesn't cut well. Theres no extra harmonies in there at all as has been suggested. I think you'll find if they went to the trouble of overdubbing on every song they would have produced a stero mix.
Some of the tracks WERE quite obviously edited down, as it was produced to be shown in cinemas, but not as the main film - hopefully/presumably they have both nights in full in the archives.

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Posted: 02 Nov 04, 08:02 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

how about earls court as the main dvd feature with hammy75 and rainbow 74 as the "extara features"? - now thatt woudl be a dvd and a half!!!


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Posted: 02 Nov 04, 08:11 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I assumed there are overdubs and was affirmed in the thread above - I would LOVE it if there are no overdubs, as I hate the thought of correcting a live recording. And I know that it is quite common, I heard it on Police Live recordings for example...
But basically the harmonies on Rainbow sound more like Freddie alone doubletracking himself and adding harmonies, I can't actually hear Roger or Brian. But if so, then the better it is ! So I stand corrected.



Guten Tag und Guten Abend !!! We had a great time in Cologne. Drinking beer in the sunshine beside the Mighty Rhein brought back many memories for me..... (Brian May, 2004)
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Posted: 02 Nov 04, 11:22 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Negative Creep wrote:

Another myth.... Live At The Rainbow ISN'T heavily overdubbed. That whole issue arose as people don't believe they were capable of such a great performance so early on.



It's not a matter of whether or not they could play that well so early on. It's a matter of it sounding, to my ears, at least, like there's more going on than is possible from four musicians. For instance, how are they're getting the whistling effects in Now I'm Here? Or the arpeggios at the beginning of Father To Son?

And maybe I'm wrong, but it still sounds like there's more than just four people singing on some bits in Ogre Battle.

<<I think you'll find if they went to the trouble of overdubbing on every song they would have produced a stero mix. >>

Why do you say that? If it was being produced for TV or cinema, then they would do the mix in mono, as stereo TV didn't exist back then, and I don't think they were doing stereo for cinema sound yet, either. So, the mix would have been done in mono.


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Posted: 02 Nov 04, 13:32 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I'm no expert on the history of cinema, but I would have thought cinemas were capable of reproducing a stereo signal by 1974... music was no longer mixed in mono by that point (hadn't been for several years), so I don't see why film would be.
Theres definitely no more that 3 voices on the Rainbow audio. I think what might be confusing you is that along with the long delay on Freddies vox on Now I'm here theres also slapback echo on all his vocals, as there is on every song - very common practise. I'd be surprised if they had the time or the inclination to go overdubbing a gig that was only ever going to be shown at the cinema, not even in its own right. At that point, i'd be surprised theyd want to release an overdubbed gig... i'm sure if they heard the audio back and thought it needed work they wouldn't have issued it in any form.

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Posted: 02 Nov 04, 13:37 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Negative Creep wrote:

I'm no expert on the history of cinema, but I would have thought cinemas were capable of reproducing a stereo signal by 1974... music was no longer mixed in mono by that point (hadn't been for several years), so I don't see why film would be.
Theres definitely no more that 3 voices on the Rainbow audio. I think what might be confusing you is that along with the long delay on Freddies vox on Now I'm here theres also slapback echo on all his vocals, as there is on every song - very common practise. I'd be surprised if they had the time or the inclination to go overdubbing a gig that was only ever going to be shown at the cinema, not even in its own right. At that point, i'd be surprised theyd want to release an overdubbed gig... i'm sure if they heard the audio back and thought it needed work they wouldn't have issued it in any form.


I'm not an expert on the history of cinema either, but I don't think it was until the late 70's or 80's before movies were done in stereo sound.

How did Live At The Rainbow go from being a theatrical release to being shown on TV? I always had the understanding it was produced for the BBC for television purposes.




"Compromise? That word is not in our vocabulary"-Roger Taylor, quoting Freddie Mercury
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Posted: 02 Nov 04, 13:55 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I know TV was still broadcast in mono into the 80's, but I would have thought stereo would have been used in cinemas by then. Maybe someone has more knowledge on that? I don't believe Live At The Rainbow was ever broadcast on TV or that it was filmed for the BBC (?). I've always been lead to believe it was only shown as a support film in British cinemas.

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Posted: 02 Nov 04, 14:24 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Forget Stereo in theatres, because by 1971 they were trying out Quad sound in some places. Obviously it didn't take off because people didn't have a clue on how to make it work well and consistently. But it does show you that Stereo was definitely around and that they'd moved onto the next movement.

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Posted: 02 Nov 04, 15:07 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Ah yeah, there are edits galore on the Rainbow video. Great footage overall, but I'd like to see this more complete, and without cuts and vocal overdubs.


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Posted: 02 Nov 04, 15:10 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

John Deacon - bassguitar, vocals, triangle

There've you got it, 4 voices, believe it or not, het gets the credit.


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Posted: 02 Nov 04, 15:26 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Yes, I thought films would have been in stereo by then.
Edits - yes. Vocal overdubs - no. They only edited it down for cinema release as it wasn't feature length. I wouldn't mind having the already released version on DVD, but its would of course be ideal if there was more of the fotoage still in the archives. Knowing QP, theyve probably lost it though!

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Posted: 02 Nov 04, 15:38 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The Rainbow gig has more overdubs than anything I have heard its terrable. Not only are the BVs overdubd I think I am correct in saying that Freddie re-recorded the lead vocal on Now Im Here, Ogre Battle, White Queen, ITLOTG, Killer Queen, ITLOTG revisited and Jailhouse Rock !!!!.
I cant even watch it without cringing.


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Posted: 02 Nov 04, 15:41 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sorry to tell you, buy youre TOTALLY wrong. If you had bothered to read any of this thread....

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Posted: 02 Nov 04, 15:53 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sorry to tell you but I am TOTALLY right. And I suppose Wembley also has no overdubs ?


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Posted: 02 Nov 04, 15:57 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Negative Creep: Have you actually watched the Rainbow gig recently? Everything NTL said was absolutely spot-on.

If YOU'D bothered to read any of this thread you'd see that only you are so deaf and blind as to believe that there are no overdubs on Rainbow, and so far there've been 4 people (5 including me) that believe, actually make that KNOW, that the exact opposite is true.

As NTL said, the overdubbing is so obvious it's almost cringeworthy, almost as cringeworthy in fact as your naive belief that there are no overdubs.


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Posted: 02 Nov 04, 16:06 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

yawn... I have actually watched it very recently & its bullshit that theres are loads of overdubs. Its comments made by people like yourself that don't understand the techniques used to mix the recording. Also, do you actually think the band would have had the funds or given the funds to go in to a studio to overdub a live recording that was never intended for proper release? Don't think so! I dont think you quite realise how incredibly difficult it would have been for them at that time to have overdubbed anything considering they would have already used up pretty much all the channels on the tape. They also must have worked miracles totally removing vocals from a primitive live recording and overdubbing them to sound so naturally live. I think youve forgotten it was filmed and recorded in 1974 darling.

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Posted: 02 Nov 04, 16:08 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I'm well aware of the overdubs on Wembley - for a start its fuckin obvious from watching parts of it, but it was also common practise by that point to overdub live recordings as they had the technology!