Forums > Queen - Serious Discussion > Pre-John bassists, and a broken mic stand

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Rufus Didymus user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 18 Nov 04, 20:21 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The Queen demo of Polar Bear is the best known pre-Deaky recording, as it features Barry Mitchell.

Can't remember the exact date offhand, but the gig you refer to was at Imperial College wasn't it?

Live stuff's never been my strong point. *hides head in shame and hopes the QZers don't bite his head off for muscling in on their turf*

posted this elsewhere by mistake, once again my apologies for that cockup!


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Posted: 18 Nov 04, 21:42 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Indeed.

For further reference, please search for the topic about QUEEN recently posted by JSS (no, not Jeff Scott Soto nor Justin Shirley-Smith, but the incomparable John S. Stuart).

Yes, I am lazy.

Mr. Scully user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 19 Nov 04, 02:03 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

No pre-John studio recordings? I thought John Stuart said Silver Salmon was recorded in 1970.

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Posted: 19 Nov 04, 04:57 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Indeed, Silver Salmon is (as said by band themselves also to be) pre-John!

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Posted: 19 Nov 04, 09:16 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

<font color="crimson"><b>ThomasQuinn</b> wrote:

jeroen wrote:

Indeed, Silver Salmon is (as said by band themselves also to be) pre-John!


It wouldn't be the first thing they said that turned out not to be true. Anyway, I trust a first-hand account by John Stuart over a 38th-hand account by Queen (or so they say).


You're right TQ... just a remark to add to the already stated JSS statement ;-)
(There are still people in here that take Brian's word over any one elses)

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Posted: 19 Nov 04, 10:45 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

That is indeed correct chaps. No pre-Queen John Deacon studio recordings exist!

Martin: I previously wrote -

http://www.queenzone.com/queenzone/forumnew/forum_topic_view.aspx?Q_FORUM_ID=1&Q_FORUM_NAME=Queen&TOPIC_SUBJECT=Eponymous+Queen+or+debut+album.&Q=407815&page=8

"...Have you listened to Brian on Radio (or other interviews) state that the very first things we did were at De Lane Lea? There is even a link to a web site which host's Brian's FIRST Queen acetate which was the De Lane Lea Sessions (as taken from "Record Collector").

Finally, Barry Mitchell himself conceeds, that he NEVER recorded in a studio with Queen, that the studio sessions came later. There are NO pre-Deacon Queen studio recordings".

Also:

1973

Queen
Line-up: Freddie Mercury (vocals), Brian May (guitar), Roger Meddows Taylor (drums), Deacon John (bass).
Recorded June – Nov 1972. Released 13th July 1973. Produced by John Anthony, Roy Thomas Baker & Queen at Trident Studios, London, for Neptune Productions. Engineered by Roy Thomas Baker, Mike Stone, Ted Sharpe & Dave Hertschel. Night Comes Down recorded by Louie Austin.... Silver Salmon (2:58) Unreleased: Home Mini-Disc"

I have NEVER said that the track was recorded earlier than 1973 - however, I concede that it may have been written before that time, and if performed live, then no audio recordings still exist. But as for the studio stuff, it is all post-Deacon I'm afraid.





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My Melancholy Blues user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 23 Nov 04, 23:49 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

About the gig where Freddie's microphone was broken...

The last gig of Wreckage took place at Wade Deacon Grammar School for Girls in Widnes, imo, autum in 1969.
The concert was a totally debacle with a poor sound and so on. When Freddie stumbled upon something by accident, he was attempting to hoist a mic stand above his head and then it broke away from its base. Without its heavy base, he was free to use mic stand like a magic wand and to prance around...he swirled it around, dropping it to his midriff when he wanted to mime a guitar solo...which later became a Queen trademark and also an indelible rock'n'roll image.

I read it in "Queen, The Early Years"
P.S. When I read this part first, I was so excited!!! Since then, I've read it many times! lol

I think it very nice to talk about his funny but joyful episode of his young days especially today...


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Posted: 24 Nov 04, 02:37 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

John, you also previous wrote (in response to my question "Silver Salmon, and Polar Bear (is this really from 1970?)":

"Both Dea Lane Lea Studios 1970. Both songs written by Tim Staffell (Smile ers), and used as "warm-ups" or contenders for the first LP. Remember - Doing All Right was a Smile song also - so that was too many Smile tracks for the first Queen LP. Obviously after 1970 Queen staretd fresh material, rather than reheat old Smile stuff."

So I'm not speculating, I just used the answer that you gave me before :-) So what is correct? 1973? 1970?

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Posted: 24 Nov 04, 02:37 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

more addiotion

All the members of Wreckage except Freddie came from Liverpool ,I mean ,Liverpool was their homeland.
They came to London and Freddie joined them as a "frontman" in the summer of 1969 when he finished his course at Ealing Art College. (He already lived with Brian, Roger, and Tim in London and started a stall at Kensington Market with Roger.)
In fact, when basic members came to London, their group name was "Ibex", but Freddie didn't like it and suggested "Wreckage" as an alternative.
Ibex/Wreckage was the first proper group to Freddie.
Ibex/Wreckage rehearsed frequently at Imperial College and their opening number was a cover of "Jailhouse Rock" at that time.
They were living in London doing some gigs during the summer and then came back to their homeland Liverpool because they (except Freddie) spent their money. Freddie also went there with them. So, "Wade Deacon Grammer School" was near/in Liverpool, though I don't know exactly where it really was/is.



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Posted: 24 Nov 04, 03:12 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Martin, the earliest (surving) Queen gig is:

Queen: Unreleased Live, Ewell Technical College 9th January 1971
Line-up: Farrokh Bulsara (vocals), Brian May (guitar), Roger Meddows Taylor (drums), Barry Mitchell (bass).
Supporting Kevin Ayers And The Whole World Band, Flying Fortress and Genesis. Ken Testi recorded the entire set on a Grundig tape recorder, but only the Rock ‘n Roll Medley remains. A flyer for this concert is briefly viewed in the official “Genesis - Archive” video
Rock ‘n Roll Medley;
Jailhouse Rock, Stupid Cupid, Bebop a Lula, Big Spender, Bama Lama Lama Loo

The earliest studio material was recorded

Queen: Unreleased De Lane Lea Demo Tape, October 1971 – February 1972
In The Beginning Bootleg CD
Line-up: Farrokh Bulsara (vocals), Brian May (guitar), Roger Meddows Taylor (drums), Deacon John (bass).
Recorded September – October 1971/ January – February 1972. Recorded by Louie Austin.
Keep Yourself Alive
Night Comes Down
Great King Rat
Jesus
Liar

Therefore NO recorded version of "Silver Salmon" exists without Deacon.

The question now is "so when was ...Salmon first written/performed?

My guess is post-Deacon, but I have read otherwise. I have tried to incorporate both strands of this into my thinking. However, recent interviews with both Tim Staffell and Barry Mitchell confirm that the track did NOT exist as a recording pre 1971.

Staffell does claim that it was his his song written during the "Smile" era - but that Smile never performed the track, and that it was a "science fiction extravagnza about a spaceship/rocket!".






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Posted: 24 Nov 04, 07:56 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sorry Martin: My main point was that there has always been some "arguments" about the exact recording dates of the De Lane Lea session.

This has always been rumoured as sometime between 1970 - 1973. (Even "As It Began" only listed four - rather than five tracks). You are correct, I once thought this was Oct - Dec 1970(ish).

However, more recent academic research seems to suggest it was recorded more to the centre/end of this period, than the start of this period, but I am still open to suggestion.

Regardless of the exact dates, we do know however that John Deacon DOES appear on the very FIRST Queen De Lane Lea recording session.

Therefore, the recorded version of Silver Salmon must be POST De Lane Lea demos, and by default - NO Barry Mitchell - as John was already in place. (This also places the De Lane Lea recording as later '71 - early '72).

The Mitchell rumour was deliberately started when a unscrupulous e-bay seller claimed to be selling "Silver Salmon" CD-R acetates (I know how silly this sounds) - but to bolster his sales, he falsely advertised the disc as a pre-Deacon, Barry Mitchell track. This ofcourse was nonesense.

Since then mislabelled MP3 downloads have continued the myth.

As for "Night Comes Down" - pull up the eponymous album thread.

(As an aside: - there must be other "experts" in here that can back me up on this - any other thoughts?)






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Posted: 24 Nov 04, 08:58 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

"No pre-John studio recordings? I thought John Stuart said Silver Salmon was recorded in 1970. `

Even if it was recorded in 1970, it wouldn´t feature an other bassplayer. Since there isn´t any bass on the song

In the beginning of the song you can hear Freddie say `I know he doesn´t know it, but he might just play on´




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Posted: 24 Nov 04, 14:57 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

As far as I recall, in the unofficial DVD titled "Becoming Queen", Mr.Mike Bersin is talking about some memories of Freddie including what I wrote, who was the basic member of Ibex/Wreckage.

Sorry, recently I have not seen it, so I forgot other detailed contents of interviews


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