Forums > Queen - Serious Discussion > 1970 - Pre John Deacon & Barry Mitchell Story

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John S Stuart user not visiting Queenzone.com
John S Stuart
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Posted: 24 Nov 04, 12:24 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Stealing from another thread...

"Are there any bootleg copies (audio or video) of Queen performing with a pre-John bassist?"

The simple answer is NO - as there are NO Queen studio or session recordings dating the pre-De Lane Lane "Keep Yourself Alive" acetate.

But, there have always been some "arguments" about the exact recording dates of this De Lane Lea session.

It has always been rumoured as being recorded sometime between 1970 - 1973. (Even "As It Began" only listed four - rather than five tracks). I too accepted the "As It Began"/QP version as correct, (ie: Oct - Dec 1970ish).

However, more recent academic research seems to suggest it was recorded more to the centre/end of this period, than the start of this period, but I am still open to suggestion.

Regardless of the exact dates, we do know however that John Deacon DOES appear on the very FIRST Queen De Lane Lea recording session. Therefore, the recorded version of Silver Salmon must be POST De Lane Lea demos, and so by default - NO Barry Mitchell - as John was already in place. (This also places the De Lane Lea recording as later '71 - early '72).

The Mitchell rumour was deliberately started when a unscrupulous e-bay seller claimed to be selling "Silver Salmon" CD-R acetates (I know how silly this sounds) - but to bolster his sales, he falsely advertised the disc as a pre-Deacon, Barry Mitchell track. This ofcourse was nonesense.

Since then mislabelled MP3 downloads have continued the myth.

Here I list "Queen"/John's 1970's activities -

1970

Sour Milk Sea: Live Various Gigs, Spring 1970
For Information only - does not exist
Line-up: Farrokh Bulsara, Chris Chesney (guitar), Paul Milne (bass), Jeremy Gallop (rhythm guitar), Rob Tyrell (drums).
Randolph Hotel, Oxford Spring 1970
Highfield Parish Hall, Headington 20th March 1970
Temple, Lower Wardour Street, London 28th March 1970

Opposition: Unreleased Beck Studios Acetate
Recorded 1970, Beck Studios, Wellingborough
Vehicle Ides Of March No: 31 June 1970
Transit 3
Sunny Bobby Hebb 1966

Opposition: Live 1970
Line-up: Nigel Bullen, Clive Castledine, Richard Young, John Deacon
You Don't Know
Going To A Go Go
Meeting Over Yonder
Midnight Hour Wilson Pickett No: 12 September 1965
Heatwave
Knock On Wood Eddie Floyd No: 50 February 1967
Hold On I'm Coming Sam & Dave
Something You Got
See Saw
Something About You
I'll Be Doggone
Can't Help Myself
Dancing In The Street Martha Reeves No: 28 October 1964
Headline News
Emergency 999
It's Growing
Ride Your Pony
Land Of 1,000 Dances Wilson Pickett No: 22 September 1966
Key To Love

Opposition: (None John Deacon) Unreleased Acetate
Non-John Deacon/ John Savage - One-sided 7” acetate
Loosen Up Free

Deacon: Live Chelsea College, 21st November 1970
For Information only - does not exist
Line-up: John Deacon (bass), Don Carter (drums), Peter Stoddard (guitar) Albert (guitar),
21st November, Chelsea College, London

Famous Jug Band: Chameleon UK LP
Chameleon (Liberty)
Original LP released on EMI/ Liberty label. 1970.
Produced/Backing vocals Roger Taylor
Sunshine Possibilities CD Extra Tracks:
God Knows
Chameleon

From this we know for definate that John's De Lane Lea activities were post 21st November 1970.

Queen: Unreleased De Lane Lea Demo Tape, October 1971 – February 1972

(Edit: Lester Burnham... five demos at De Lane Lea Studios were recorded on September 18, 1971 - Good shout Lester - but personally I think this would have taken longer considering that Queen were only allowed to use "downtime" - however the fact that it was recorded ABOUT this time is a great help).

In The Beginning Bootleg CD
Line-up: Farrokh Bulsara (vocals), Brian May (guitar), Roger Meddows Taylor (drums), Deacon John (bass).
Recorded September – October 1971/ January – Februa


"Listen to them. Children of the night. What music they make."
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Posted: 24 Nov 04, 12:25 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Barry Mitchell 1965 - 1968

Conviction
Summer 1965 7” Acetate
Rock Me Baby/ Telephone Blues
Barry Mitchell first acetate recorded 1965, Barry’s front room (includes Alan Parsons). Usual line up - Vocals: Ian Harris, Guitar/ vocals: Alan Parsons, Guitar: Alan Owen, Bass: Barry Mitchell, Drums: Phil Brockton. Only 5 copies cut.

Began life as a soul band around 1965 – 66, as the brainchild of lead vocalist Ian Harris, playing mainly Ottis Reading and Commitment type covers. Converted to Blues circa 1967, when they played such illustrious places as Ronnie Scott’s Blues Club – where they were compared to the likes of Cream and Fleetwood Mac.

By 1968 totally psychedelic, converted to hippies, and started writing own material. Spotted by American A&R man Doug Mews of Mercury Records – who was specifically searching for a “London” sound.

1969
Earth
January 10 Conviction recorded an album’s worth of material at De Lane Lea Studios for release on the American market. Mercury wanted to change the band’s name to London, the band preferred Earth, and wanted the album to be called Metamorphous or some other psychedelic title. Recorded in the same studio as the Bonzo Dog Doo Dah Band’s Doughnut in Granny’s Greenhouse album, the eponymous LP Earth, although never issued, was cut as a 12” acetate (of which only a solitary copy seems to exist). This record is not only valuable because it features a very young Alan Parson’s but also highlights future Queen bassist Barry Mitchell.

Recorded January 10 1969, Mercury Records, De Lane Lea, London. Produced by Douglas Mews.
Blues Tattoo (Mitchell). Don’t See You Much (Mitchell wrote bass). Song To
Katherine (Ray Quilly – only drafted in for the day).
Vocals: Ian Harris, Alan Parsons: Lead guitar/ acoustic guitar, flute, Organ/ mouth organ: Ray Quilly, Bass guitar: Barry Mitchell, Drums: Phil Brockton.
Miseducation, Sea Of Faces, Earthworm, Rain On The Roof, Something Above Us, Blues Tattoo, Don’t See You Much, In The Land Of The Blind, Angel Of Death, Song To Katherine.

1970
After the departure of original Queen bassist Mike Grose, Barry’s friend Roger Crossley, who had met Roger Taylor, set up an audition at Imperial College. After passing the audition, Barry was invited to join, and like Brian and Roger, brought a degree of hardened studio professionalism to the struggling out-fit, and also, coincidently cut unreleased material for Mercury Records, specifically aimed at the US market.

This new Queen practiced a variety of material. Covers of Jimmi Hendrix’s Electric Lady and Voodoo Chile proved to be particular favourites, as did, Shirley Bassey’s Big Spender and Cliff Richard’s Bachelor Boy. Live sets included the old Wreckage number Stone Cold Crazy, and the perennial Elvis Presley and Little Richard encores.

A particular highlight for the band (and Brian in particular) was the appearance of the Tornados guitarist Heinz (Just Like Eddie), at their first Imperial College gig. Brian May amassed a large private collection of band photographs during this period, but unfortunately none seem to survive.

1971
January 9 Ewell Technical College, Surrey
Barry Mitchell's final gig, supporting Kevin Ayres And The Whole World Band and Genesis. The set was recorded by Ken Testi on a Grundig reel to reel - due to technical difficulties (mangled/chewed tape), only the encore remains.
Jailhouse rock, Stupid Cupid, Bebopa Lula, Big Spender, Bamalama Lamaloo

January 10 Barry Mitchell left the band for personal reasons, the departure was amicable and on good terms. In fact Barry was persuaded by the rest of the band to stay on, but his mind would not be changed.

Primarily, he left because he wanted to marry and settle. Also, he could not afford his rock and roll lifestyle. If that sounds a little romantic, he also confesses to being impatient and in his own words; "Queen were an excellent band, but we were going nowhere fast". In essence, he wanted big


"Listen to them. Children of the night. What music they make."
John S Stuart user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 24 Nov 04, 12:40 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sorry if this all seems a little too much - but I really hate seeing such rumours unchecked - so I do my best to address them. (Not that it makes much difference as most people believe what they want to anyway!).

As for mistakes, I also make them - (far too frequently!) As can be seen, I too once thought that the De Lane Lea sessions began life circa 1970. From the above research, I can now see that it is not so. Hence the change in my own personal position.

Just trying to keep it straight!


"Listen to them. Children of the night. What music they make."
The Real Wizard user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 24 Nov 04, 14:01 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Very interesting stuff here. Too bad most people don't care.


"The more generous you are with your music, the more it comes back to you." -- Dan Lampinski



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Posted: 24 Nov 04, 14:46 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

excellent information to have yet again. JSS is really a wealth of this stuff that nobody else can seem to get to.

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Posted: 24 Nov 04, 19:21 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Thanks again John - Very interesting.


Roger: I like it. If you don't. Sod you!



Queen song poll: http://home.comcast.net/~vantricers/index.html



B-52's: I, I, I'm lookin for some fun - waitin for the REAL Queen Box Sets to come
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Posted: 24 Nov 04, 20:05 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

What about the Queen version of 'Polar Bear' then?

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Posted: 24 Nov 04, 20:08 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Damn, that's some down to Earth info. Thanks John.


...this kettle is boiling over...

...one dump...one turd...two tits...John Deacon...

...one prawn...one shrimp...one clam...one chicken!
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Posted: 24 Nov 04, 20:51 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Thanks for putting in the effort, John. Interesting stuff


Liverpool Arena, 17th October 2008: Lovely stuff!

Manchester MEN, 4th May 2005: F*cking superb.

Registered: Wednesday, July 25, 2001
John S Stuart user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 24 Nov 04, 22:49 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

What about the Queen version of 'Polar Bear' then?

Same category as "Silver Salmon". Post De Lane Lane acetate.




"Listen to them. Children of the night. What music they make."
Lester Burnham user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 25 Nov 04, 00:36 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

He would've written Queen's biggest flop, 'Another One Bites The Crust'.

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Posted: 25 Nov 04, 11:28 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



Silver salmon is always said to be recorded before Queen I was released ok BUT...what about that little recording you can listen right before on the same recording?
I think it was called silver salmon too? even though its completely different?

My copy of the recording has got that little jam song first and once its finished, you listen to the comments made by Freddie right before the start of the usual silver salmon.

John S Stuart user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 25 Nov 04, 11:37 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sorry Cesar, but I fail to see what your point is.

If the De Lane Lea sessions are the first time Queen appeared together in the Studio (and it is pretty much fact that it was), then by definition EVERY other Queen recording post dates this event - and ALL these recordings are Deacon inclusive. It matters not about titles or dates - but simple deduction.

Therefore whether it is Silver Salmon, Polar Bear, or another (as yet unreleased) Keep Yourself Alive version - it matters not.

The sad truth is NO pre-Deacon studio Queen exists.


"Listen to them. Children of the night. What music they make."
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Posted: 25 Nov 04, 12:10 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

ok, thanks.
It's just those silver salmon (different from each other takes) doesnt sound so earlier but well, we all know Deacon is there right?

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Posted: 26 Nov 04, 08:48 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

"Are there any bootleg copies (audio or video) of Queen performing with a pre-John bassist?"

The simple answer is NO - as there are NO Queen studio or session recordings dating the pre-De Lane Lane "Keep Yourself Alive" acetate.

well actually there is an mp3 on the net (mercuryparadise.com) that is barry mitchell playing bass and freddie and the rest (except John of course) doing the smile song polar bear


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Posted: 26 Nov 04, 10:06 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

"well actually there is an mp3 on the net (mercuryparadise.com)....."

If I post somewhere that Freddie is alive that doesn't mean it's true either.

John S Stuart user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 26 Nov 04, 11:38 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Mercuryworks: Sometimes, I really do wonder if the effort I take is really worth it!

I do not expect to be believed - that is fine, but come on, can't some of you guys do a little personal research?

Still, as long as false rumours exist, "Mercuryman" yet again pulls his red cotton underpants over his red lycra tights!

(OK I like the uniform...:-)


"Listen to them. Children of the night. What music they make."
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Posted: 26 Nov 04, 16:26 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

JSS - Polar Bear was recorded by Smile, Freddie & Tim were becoming good friends around this time and Fred was hanging out with Smile quite a bit. Therefore is it not feasable that there is no Queen version of Polar bear but a Smile version with Freddie guesting on it?


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Posted: 26 Nov 04, 18:01 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Rich Tea: The more I write - the more I despair!

NO Smile Freddie. NO Pre De Lane Lea Studio Queen. NO Pre-Deacon Queen.

I know this is not what you want to hear - but there you have it!

What does strike me as curious is - that if you own Smile, Silver Salmon or Polar Bear - does it really make any difference if the bassist is John or not - what difference does it make to the track?

Apart from a romantic belief - what other essential essence would this bring?

I just feel that by debunking myths like Santa, the tooth fairy or pre-Deacon Queen brings so many questions - I wonder if it is better to keep people in the dark (but believing in rubbish) or to shed a little light - and destroy the magic?


"Listen to them. Children of the night. What music they make."
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Posted: 26 Nov 04, 18:49 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Leave me out of this, I had neither Barry nor John in me.


can i go to lunch now?