Forums > Queen - Serious Discussion > Where and why did Queen lose their ambition?

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7 user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 09 Feb 05, 00:09 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

(Hello, I am new here and I am 18 years old. Queen were my first favorite band when I was in 5th grade and I love everything they do. With that said...)

I was listening to things like Ogre Battle, March of the Black Queen, Death on Two Legs, and why not, Bohemian Rhapsody and I see that these were awesome compositions. And then I move forward in Queen's timeline and I listen to songs like "It's a Kind of Magic" and even "Body Language" and I think: where did their ambition go? Why did they lose it?

Why did Freddie stop creating these masterpieces? Now that he's gone (RIP) sadly, we cannot know this for sure. But really, I would like to know what happened?

Thanks.


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Posted: 09 Feb 05, 00:40 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

They just changed their style to suit the new age.. i love alot of their newer stuff


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Posted: 09 Feb 05, 02:16 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I think they unfortunately learned how to write hits. Good for success, bad for art. It was probably for the best in the end, but it did result in a lack of innovation in later years for them, I think.

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Posted: 09 Feb 05, 02:36 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

First, Welcome to Queenzone! :-)

Well, I don't think they've lost their ambition to write good songs nor was there a lack of innovation. They just grew with the time... Like they changed their outfits and style they also changed their music.
When they started, glam rock was the thing and that's what they did and that's what they looked like. To me a band is a real good band only when you hear their development and growing and changing from album to album. I think they wrote brilliant songs till the last album...actually, Innuendo is one of their best albums!
It's just the fact that "music changes through the years"...


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Posted: 09 Feb 05, 03:02 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

only successful bands area able to grow over time, and good fans should realize that too.


I base most modern bands who release drastically different or diverse albums albums on the Queen formula, in my opinion, those bands will be around a long time. As artists you have to grow and not keep doing the same thing forever or you will lose interest, eventually people will catch on and hate you for being a one trick pony.

As much as I like those alubms, I'm sure Queen would never be as popular as they were today if they churned out 73-75 ish sounding material their whole career, fans grow with a band.


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Posted: 09 Feb 05, 03:06 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I agree with Peter and Sonja... The songs are different, but they've made masperpieces in every period of their carreers. Innuendo is an good example.

Welcome by the way... good question for a newbie. It's important here to have a good start. You'll soon know why :-)


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because I'm an asshole but I'm learning.



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Posted: 09 Feb 05, 09:19 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Would you be a Queen fan if they have released 15 albums only with songs like March Of The Black Queen?

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Posted: 09 Feb 05, 09:26 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

"only successful bands area able to grow over time, and good fans should realize that too."

How true. Check out 3 Doors Down, Nickelback, and the rest of Corporate rock to see bands that NEVER change what they do. All of the fucking songs sound the same...


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Sean Connery
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Posted: 09 Feb 05, 10:55 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Good question!!

I think their last great album is Jazz. MIH and Innuendo both have some great songs on them, but Jazz is where the real consistent brilliance finishes up, although god knows they came up with some class things later on in life too.

I think it is because they learned to write hits, it's an excellent point.

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Posted: 09 Feb 05, 11:23 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

That is a really good question. I must admit I felt the same way for ages, but I've Queen's later material grew on me. I know styles change, but there's nothing wrong with prefering one era of Queen over another. Everything up to Hot Space are my favorites. Personally I just don't feel the same magic in any of Queen's music past that era, but that's just me and my tastes.

7 user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 09 Feb 05, 12:44 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

All the albums like Queen, Queen II, A night..., A day at..., Sheer Heart Attack have the same style but none of the songs sound the same so I have to disagree with someone who asked if I would still like them if they did the same thing forever.

It's just that one would think that through practice and repetition someone would perfect their art and not, I feel, take a step back and come up with poppy hits.

Objectively, I am sure they had an easier time recording "It's a Kind of Magic" than say, "Brighton Rock".

Their music went from incredibly to interesting to just ...swell.

And no, I am not saying that they had bad albums in the end. I love Innuendo but I just can't see where they chose to make things simpler ...a lot simpler.


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Posted: 09 Feb 05, 13:31 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I don`t see they had a formula for the first albums. Some say they were into multi-track vocals and guitars, but I don`t find much of that in Spread Your Wings or Stone Cold Crazy. Their musical style isn`t something you could label even if you pick just one side of an album. Take, for instance, the Black Side of Queen II. In which genre can you pigeon-hole Ogre Battle, Masterstroke, Nevermore, Black Queen, Funny and Seven Seas? They`re all so different.

Probably they`ve lasted the same (or even more) in A Kind Of Magic than they spent in Brighton Rock imo. Sometimes it`s even easier to try out all ideas you`ve got, than to be able to stay minimalist and pick the right note at the right moment. Same for Brian`s guitar work, sometimes it`d be easier to just overdub a handful of block harmonies than to risk yourself to record just one guitar track, but do it so well that you wouldn`t need anymore (e.g. Bijou).


John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
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Posted: 09 Feb 05, 15:00 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

7 wrote:



And no, I am not saying that they had bad albums in the end. I love Innuendo but I just can't see where they chose to make things simpler ...a lot simpler.


Just one example: Innuendo.
Where is this song simple?
I believe they NEVER made "simple" things. They always put everything they could into their work. Maybe technical development and improvement made it easier for them to realize their ideas but that doesn't mean that they didn't put as much work into the last albums as they did in the beginning.


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Posted: 09 Feb 05, 15:43 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I don't think they lost their ambition exactly, but they just cared about different things. All of their lives changed in those years to the point that Freddie preferred writing about his trouble with love instead of the more mythical songs of the seventies.


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Posted: 09 Feb 05, 17:29 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

They lost their ambition during Flash Gordon, Hot Space and A Kind Of Magic. In my opinion these are their worst records. The rest was/ is very good !!

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Posted: 09 Feb 05, 18:27 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I'd have to agree with Sonja from Germany. I've been following them since '77 and I remember the earlier albums and thought how brilliant they were. Lots of information recorded on Queen II. But as I followed them from '77 on, the times had changed during each album. When they started someone wrote that glam was in, then they got through the punk period and made it through that. Uh-oh, here's 1979-80 and here comes new wave. They got through that. Then when the 80's were in high gear, synth music and heavy metal dominated. They may have weakened slightly in the mid-eighties but damn did Freddie leave on a good note with the Innuendo album. Everyone on this topic brought up some great points. At least Queen was willing to take risks and experiment. AC/DC hasn't changed one bit in all the years they've been around. AC/DC isn't just the name of the band, it's also the only chords they know.

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Posted: 09 Feb 05, 18:29 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

7 wrote:

(Hello, I am new here and I am 18 years old. Queen were my first favorite band when I was in 5th grade and I love everything they do. With that said...)

I was listening to things like Ogre Battle, March of the Black Queen, Death on Two Legs, and why not, Bohemian Rhapsody and I see that these were awesome compositions. And then I move forward in Queen's timeline and I listen to songs like "It's a Kind of Magic" and even "Body Language" and I think: where did their ambition go? Why did they lose it?

Why did Freddie stop creating these masterpieces? Now that he's gone (RIP) sadly, we cannot know this for sure. But really, I would like to know what happened?

Thanks.


Who turns out masterpieces on a clockwork basis? Who wakes up in the morning and says "Today I will be brilliant"? How many times did Einstein have to develop the theory of relativity or Da Vinci paint the Mona Lisa? To expect anybody to turn out a classic of the caliber of "Bohemian Rhapsody" year in and year out is unrealistic and unfair. They made the music they made when they made it and as the spirit moved them. Some was amazing. Some was crap. Most fell somewhere in the middle. But to say they or Freddie lost their ambition because they didn't turn out a groundbreaking song or album everytime is to misunderstand the nature of talent. Anyone who has listened to "Innuendo" or "Made in Heaven" with an open mind would have to concede that the ambition was there right through to the end. How well that ambition was realized is a matter of subjectivity.


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Posted: 09 Feb 05, 19:54 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Queen lost their ambition? This is news to me.

Queen were always an ambitious band--consistenly wanting to make things bigger and better. By the late-1980's, this ambition brought them into new, uncharted (to Queen) waters, like that of stadium pop.

I think Queen wanted to incorporate many different styles; in fact, I attribute songs like "A Kind of Magic" as being born of the fact that they were an ambitious band who wanted to do something different then "Tie Your Mother Down" and "Stone Cold Crazy" rehashes their entire career.

This being said, I must agree I enjoy their work from 1973-84 (sans Hot Space and Flash) moreso than 84-91 (sans Innuendo). I also agree that (well, especially with The Miracle) there seemed to be a point where they were just phoning some songs in. I think they could have continued being a more harder-edged rock band for a little longer than they did. I always wonder--would their popularity have wained in the United States had The Works been released in 1982 instead of Hot Space? We'll never know.

(I always found The Works to be the perfect marriage of their rock and pop sides.)


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Posted: 09 Feb 05, 21:10 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

JDL2nd wrote:

They lost their ambition during Flash Gordon, Hot Space and A Kind Of Magic. In my opinion these are their worst records. The rest was/ is very good !!



A kind Of Magic is a fab album. It is pop, not the rock they usualy do(althought One Vision,Princes and gimme the priceare rockier). But this is fab work. Flah Gordon is a great original soundtrack. Maybe you just don't like soundtracks!

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Posted: 09 Feb 05, 22:41 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

They definately didn't loose anything


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Freddie: "And it will fly into a great big mouth with a moustache!"