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djaef user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 03 Apr 05, 01:39 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

This quote from Lord Dennis got me thinking, and I was wondering where the majority of people stood regarding this issue.

<font color=silver>Lord Dennis<h6>Sacret wrote:

why are all these people now a day asking wether others can send stuff for free through the internet. why don't they try to buy it from a trader or trade it with him. The mentellaty of gettign bootlegs is getting week.


The whole principle of the Queen hub(s) is that people can share their Queen collections with others. For free! No burning cds, no money changing hands, no sending stuff in the mail and hoping it'll arrive (or that its arrival is acknowledged), no secret clubs or traders who hold stuff back for financial gain... just free trading amongst Queen fans.

Now I'm not sure where I stand regarding rare stuff. One thing is to collect rare officially released product. Good on you if that's what turns you on, and you have a fat enough wallet to do it.
But collecting mp3s or flac files or whatever of concerts and rare demos etc, why would you not want to share them. Gaining financially off them is called bootlegging and it is frowned upon by Queen themselves. I'm sure Queen would much prefer if concerts were freely traded by individuals than fans paying money to someone who had recorded a concert and sold it.

I think the old fashioned form of trading (cd-r swap) is going the way of the dinosaur, and I for one don't understand the mentality behind keeping back a bootleg from others. Sure, you might have paid money for it at one time, but is it a virtue to then want others to pay money to get it? I don't condone the sharing of officially available albums (I do draw a line at rarer versions and demos etc) but as for bootlegs, let them be free. Liberate them from the bootleggers that's what I say.

I'd like to hear other points of view. What is so wrong with requesting stuff? I recently gave away 3 cds of queen concerts (I even paid the postage), and it gave me a good feeling that they were going to give someone else pleasure. So I don't get the whole hoarding mentality.

Fire away!



djaef - Queen fan since 1678, after the Dorog concert!
Panchgani user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 03 Apr 05, 03:09 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Nowadays, except for one of a kind rare items, the vast majority of Queen bootlegs are shared. There is a very small minority of items only available in the trading community (and most of these can hardly be thought of necessities when similar bootleg concerts exist).

The reason for the backlash is probably results from posters who mostly post begging topics, but appear to never share anything themselves.


Roger: I like it. If you don't. Sod you!



Queen song poll: http://home.comcast.net/~vantricers/index.html



B-52's: I, I, I'm lookin for some fun - waitin for the REAL Queen Box Sets to come
inu-liger user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 03 Apr 05, 03:13 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

It'd be nice if those private collectors would let available the stuff that's either extremely rare or virtually unavailable at the moment.

Eg. Hangman acetate

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Posted: 03 Apr 05, 03:20 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Someone paid hundreds of dollars for that item.

Dark - Are you prepared to throw away hundreds of dollars of your own money?

Why should he throw his money away? Why don't you make him an offer? Maybe he will sell it to you, and then you can upload it.

There are plenty of live versions of Hangman available, so having an mp3 of a studio version should not be a life or death situation.


Roger: I like it. If you don't. Sod you!



Queen song poll: http://home.comcast.net/~vantricers/index.html



B-52's: I, I, I'm lookin for some fun - waitin for the REAL Queen Box Sets to come
djaef user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 03 Apr 05, 04:03 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Rip Van Winkle wrote:


The reason for the backlash is probably results from posters who mostly post begging topics, but appear to never share anything themselves.


And fair enough too. I'm all for sharing in both directions.

Rip Van Winkle wrote:

Someone paid hundreds of dollars for that item.

Dark - Are you prepared to throw away hundreds of dollars of your own money?

Why should he throw his money away? Why don't you make him an offer? Maybe he will sell it to you, and then you can upload it.

There are plenty of live versions of Hangman available, so having an mp3 of a studio version should not be a life or death situation.


But isn't it the acetate itself that is worth the money? Not the song. Even if everyone has an mp3 of it (which in itself is worthless) the original acetate is still worth a lot of money. That's the way I understand it anyway. I don't see how digital versions of anything bring the value down of real product. Like I mean, there are untold millions of copies of Bohemian Rhapsody, but in no way does that fact lower the value of the very rare blue single.




djaef - Queen fan since 1678, after the Dorog concert!
brENsKi user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 03 Apr 05, 05:57 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

djaef wrote:

But isn't it the acetate itself that is worth the money? Not the song. Even if everyone has an mp3 of it (which in itself is worthless) the original acetate is still worth a lot of money. That's the way I understand it anyway. I don't see how digital versions of anything bring the value down of real product. Like I mean, there are untold millions of copies of Bohemian Rhapsody, but in no way does that fact lower the value of the very rare blue single.



i agree with your point - to an extent. the acetate is the rarity and as such the item that holds any value. but the recording itself also has a marketable value

if it is be accepted that it's okay to have an mp3 of this track then once it's "out there" how do you stop pirates and bootleggers from making money from releasing it on compilations?

you can just see the new generation of CDs that get released by the bootleggers:

"Queen - Early Jewels"

1. silver salmon
2. mad the swine
3. polar bear
4. de lane lea demos
5. larry lurex x2
6. left hand marriage x3
7. wreckage x3
8. ibex x9
9. hangman - rare studio recording

fans would buy an "all in one place" cd like that
the bootleggers would make a killing - and queen (perhaps thru their own naievity and stupidity) would miss the boat

why don't queen release their own "Early Jewels" set?

one other thing - once it is public domain, queen have been deprived of royalties and possible future sales?


go deo na hÉireann
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Posted: 03 Apr 05, 06:19 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

<B><font color=#ff7f00>Brenski</B> wrote:



if it is be accepted that it's okay to have an mp3 of this track then once it's "out there" how do you stop pirates and bootleggers from making money from releasing it on compilations?

you can just see the new generation of CDs that get released by the bootleggers:

"Queen - Early Jewels"

1. silver salmon
2. mad the swine
3. polar bear
4. de lane lea demos
5. larry lurex x2
6. left hand marriage x3
7. wreckage x3
8. ibex x9
9. hangman - rare studio recording

fans would buy an "all in one place" cd like that
the bootleggers would make a killing - and queen (perhaps thru their own naievity and stupidity) would miss the boat

why don't queen release their own "Early Jewels" set?

one other thing - once it is public domain, queen have been deprived of royalties and possible future sales?



exactly....so when the Special Edition cd's come along, a lot of people (myself included) are likely to already have the bonus material. There isn't anything to stop people releasing bootleg compliations and selling them at record fairs; having been to a few in the east of england I've come across "rare" queen cds - containing the smile tracks, De Lane Lea demos, early live performances etc as well as dvds of live shows - some complete, some not.

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Posted: 03 Apr 05, 06:22 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

bitesthedust wrote:

<B><font color=#ff7f00>Brenski</B> wrote:



if it is be accepted that it's okay to have an mp3 of this track then once it's "out there" how do you stop pirates and bootleggers from making money from releasing it on compilations?

you can just see the new generation of CDs that get released by the bootleggers:

"Queen - Early Jewels"

1. silver salmon
2. mad the swine
3. polar bear
4. de lane lea demos
5. larry lurex x2
6. left hand marriage x3
7. wreckage x3
8. ibex x9
9. hangman - rare studio recording

fans would buy an "all in one place" cd like that
the bootleggers would make a killing - and queen (perhaps thru their own naievity and stupidity) would miss the boat

why don't queen release their own "Early Jewels" set?

one other thing - once it is public domain, queen have been deprived of royalties and possible future sales?

</B>

exactly....so when the Special Edition cd's come along, a lot of people (myself included) are likely to already have the bonus material. There isn't anything to stop people releasing bootleg compliations and selling them at record fairs; having been to a few in the east of england I've come across "rare" queen cds - containing the smile tracks, De Lane Lea demos, early live performances etc as well as dvds of live shows - some complete, some not. I've taken my bootleg trading site off the 'net now as there's not the interest anymore...people are requesting shows to uploaded on yousendit.com or rapidshare. There's always the Queenhouse FTP site too.

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Posted: 03 Apr 05, 06:23 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



brENsKi user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 03 Apr 05, 06:35 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

but there are zillions of people out there who either don't have access to the net, or don't have a broadband connection

who will happily pay £10 for a disc that has all the early stuff on - otherwise leggers
wouldn't be making a living at cd/record fairs.
and these people would happily buy another "early compilation" if it had studio Hangman on

so as i said - once this version is "in the wild" then it is sellable at cd fairs

which again, begs the question: why don't Queen release an "early jewels cd" with hangman on/ this would at least ensure those that wanted to buy it - actually gave the money to queen productions


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Posted: 03 Apr 05, 07:12 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

to get started sharing -

1. you need to BUY some boots or rarities cds (not official stuff)
2. then use audiograbber - to mp3 em to your hardrive
3. download DC++ and install
4. set your shared drive
5. start sharing - and increasing your own collection


finally - have YOU actually tried hunting around the web for bootlegs to buy? - google - queen bootlegs and see - their are hundreds of sites

the following do trades

http://home.quicknet.nl/qn/prive/je.holewijn/what_we_can_offer/what_we_can_offer.htm

http://www.queenonstage.com/index.htm
http://www.queenboots.com/Queenboots/f_news.htm








go deo na hÉireann
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Posted: 03 Apr 05, 07:48 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Queenzone has a tradition of sharing. There was the ftp server, the hub was always supported by Queenzone (look up the FAQ), now the BitTorrent project. Let's not forget the bootleg trees started by Zeni and Rip van Winkle.

What annoys me is that people who have a quick connection and chat all day on MSN are too lazy to learn how to use a BitTorrent client and download the offered shares. I am really sick of people posting requests here: please send the 2 GB to abc@hotmail.com. It does not work that way and it alienates the people who are willing to share their material.

I am not talking about people who have slow internet connection or pay per minute. Or people who have difficulties understanding the help texts because they don't speak English.

Maybe it's our own fault that we "raised" this generation of beggars with our own generosity. It does not need a university degree to collect 2 Gb of inofficial Queen material in order to join the hub. Please read the FAQ in the QZ questions and answers.

And to even discuss that people should freely give away rare tracks they paid thousands of pounds for, ist just ridiculous. Why should anybody do this? If some day Queen Productions dip into their pockets and buy such rare stuff from collectors and publish it we will all be able to buy them. As long as it does not happen, the collectors in question would be stupid to make their precious collection public domain. I would not do it if I owned such a rare recording.

And the myth of the secret elite club of traders - that's just stupid. Most traders have been collecting for years, spending a lot of time and money to get what they have - you all can do that if you want. If you are not willing to spend that much time and money. you won't have all the available recordings, it's that easy.




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Posted: 03 Apr 05, 08:27 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

as i sayd on other topic...

why can't we ask?we are not prohibited... if i ask,i don't see anything wrong.If i'm starting collecting,what will i do?searching for bootlegs,and searching means asking.

years ago people still were paying money to thoose who sold bootlegs,ok...in this days it's just searching on emule,kazaa or others to find what we want.

get over it,paying for bootlegs in this days?thoose days are long gone...things chance...




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Posted: 03 Apr 05, 09:28 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Inu Yasha: "It'd be nice if those private collectors would let available the stuff that's either extremely rare or virtually unavailable at the moment... Eg. Hangman acetate"

This sort of comment really pisses me off.

First: What have YOU shared? "Teo Torriate" and Kerry Ellis "No One But You" OFFICIAL releases. Hardly anything spectacular! As far as I see, I own NO one any favours - especially you Dark.

Second: Whatever I have in my collection, as YV has already stated, is the result of "Indiana Jones" type digging - and are the results of a lot of research and hard work. For those who envy - get off your butt and do the same.

As for the comment that an MP3 does not detract from the value of the acetate, while this may hold true of prints of the Mona Lisa, it does not hold true for music because if the music itself is unreleased or unheard - this undoubtedly adds to the value of the disc (or cassette tape - or whatever).

But my main beef is not Hangman - or free MP3's - it is both ATTITUDE and leeching. We have created an ATTITUDE of "I want", "I deserve" and worse still - "I leech".




"Listen to them. Children of the night. What music they make."
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Posted: 03 Apr 05, 10:12 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sorry Thomas. I am not prepared to do that.

Even though your request is both reasonable and polite, such a post would backfire both as ammunition for those who would like to have a "pop" - or leech further, and upset those who feel that they deserve the same. It is not the first time I have been accused of showing-off and disturbing the harmony of this board.

Even though THEY have invested NO time, NO talent, NO money, NO hard work, somehow, THEY think that they deserve the same.

Can someone please explain to me why that should be so?


"Listen to them. Children of the night. What music they make."
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Posted: 03 Apr 05, 12:54 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I just wanna say that I think that most people on Queenzone are so great with the whole bootleg thing. Without people giving stuff away for free(without trading) It'd be really hard for new people to get into the whole thing.
I really think it's fantastic that so many people are willing to freely trade and give out bootleg shows. It's gotten me into so much more stuff than Queen shows and I totally feel like I'm seeing a whole new side of the bands by hearing them throughout their careers than just a couple officially released live CDs.
It just really bugs me when collecters get stingey with their stuff. It's pretty selfish and pretty much goes against the whole "it's all about the music" mentality.
So I just really wanna thank everyone on this site that has been real cool and shared their stuff with me and everyone else. Thanks to you guys, I really enjoy collecting old shows and can enjoy the bands on a whole new level

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Posted: 03 Apr 05, 13:08 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

ThomasQuinn: "I can't say I would do any different were I in your shoes."

No problems.

I do try to help out whenever I can. I am not deliberately awkward. The amount of genuinely rare material I have shared over the years really has gone past without notice or appreciation - but that is by the by. (By the same token - I am grateful to those in here who have taken the time and courtesy and shared with me - as it really is a two-way street).

The thing is I take "pride" in my collection - it has been a life-long passion. For example, I was not long married, and had two small children to support, when Queen released the "Complete Works" box-set.

The price (then) was roughly £75.00 - or the same as about one week's wage - and however you cut it one week's wage in 1985, and one weeks wage 20 years later - is still 25% of a monthly income.

To afford this, I had to sacrafice. I had to defer bills. I had to rob Peter to Pay Paul. Most of all, I had to stop drinking for a few weeks, but, the end result is that I love that set. I appreciate that set, and most of all - it is a nice artifact in my collection.

Now I am no saint, nor do I expect any round of applause, but my point is - I chose my actions because I wanted that set. I did not expect it free, nor do I grudge others who later purchased autographed versions from e-bay.

In otherwords I prioritised, made decissions and took control, and because of such I have NO respect for those leeches who sit open beaked like baby-birds expecting to be fed at my expense.

Sorry if this has sounded a bit preachy, but sharing - Yes, MP3's - Yes, hard to find - Yes, Officially available matrial - NO, and especially rare collector's item - definately NOT!!!

PS: Why is it that most of the leechers in here, are those that have downloaded their official Queen catalogues from Kazza WinMX or Russian MP3 sites anyway? As a generalisation, those who have purchased official products (seem to me) to be among the "nicest" 'zoner's of all!




"Listen to them. Children of the night. What music they make."
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Posted: 03 Apr 05, 13:09 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

YourValentine wrote:


Maybe it's our own fault that we "raised" this generation of beggars with our own generosity. It does not need a university degree to collect 2 Gb of inofficial Queen material in order to join the hub.


Yes. The more QZ offers, the more people want. What bothers me is that the appreciation seems gone and is replaced by a sense of entitlement.

As for the complaint from Taylorbeggar that he is too young and doesn't have enough stuff to trade, get over it. Everyone starts somewhere and it usually entails being polite, working contacts, and spending a little dough. As John said, "For those who envy - get off your butt and do the same." It's not magic, just work. Coming onto to QZ, asking for rare items and only giving back official downloads in return does not win friends.


DJ's the man we love the most
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Posted: 03 Apr 05, 13:11 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

taylorgaga (Begg) wrote:

we all do, we all love collectin shows and tracks but like u sed some people are stingy and wont share, but then u have annoyin ass holes kile me who just beg beg beg, which i apologies for, its the way it goes unfortunatly.


Begging is not the way it goes.

Even being 17 in the north of England, you still have options. Spend your time figuring those out rather than pester a noticeboard with your begging.


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John S Stuart user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 03 Apr 05, 13:22 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Linda: To me your point: "What I'm saying is, not EVERYONE can join the hub and not EVERYONE has a big enough collection to share stuff... But what is terrible, is the amount of people who download stuff with no appreciation or thanks." - is both elloquent and logical.

My point hopefully recognises this and builds upon it to take the discussion to the next stage.

That is - if what you say is correct - for these very SAME people to to cry out "I want more!", AFTER they have already looted the store of all its content - beggers belief.

Then when they are told - "the store is empty - you have ALL there is", they turn around and say "but a few elite traders have... and I want that too".

Finally if they were given access to this, their cry would be, "Why buy special edition CDs?".

To me, these are NOT Queen fans, but cheapskates who have NO intention of ever buying anything - so the whole argument is a sham anyway - because no matter whatever was offered to them, they EXPECT free copies anyway.


"Listen to them. Children of the night. What music they make."