Forums > Queen + Adam Lambert > Legal downloads CD-R tree/swap?

forum rss feed
Author

inu-liger user not visiting Queenzone.com
inu-liger
Deity: 13057 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 20 Apr 05, 20:04 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Hey, I just had a brilliant idea that would possibly ensure that some of us can get legal copies of the live songs currently being made available for download.

I purchased "Can't Get Enough Of Your Love" from the Madrid 01/04/2005 concert, and it's amazing.
While I was looking at the licence properties for the file, I noticed that it said the file can be legally burned "10 more times"(!!)

That's where I got this idea: If some people were to buy at least some of the tracks, and burn the 10 CD-R's, they could keep one of the CD-R's for themselves and distribute the other 9 with friends (whether personal or QZ friends).

I would gladly burn 9 discs with the song I bought, for other people here if they wanted to hear the songs completely w/o directly purchasing the songs themselves (hey, it's legal, isn't it?)

This way, we can also perhaps do some trades in the process for other tracks from the QOL / 7Digital downloads shop, so some of us can hear the other great performances being made available, right?

Any comments? Concerns?
Let me know what you guys think.

Maz user not visiting Queenzone.com

Deity: 5799 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 20 Apr 05, 21:44 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Inu Yasha<h6>a.k.a. Lum's Stormtrooper wrote:


While I was looking at the licence properties for the file, I noticed that it said the file can be legally burned "10 more times"(!!)


I'm pretty certain they mean for your own personal use, so look for any legal clauses in that regard.

The "burn 10 times" line was not intended for you to share free of charge with 9 other people, otherwise what's the point in charging for internet downloads? This is still official material and sharing it is no different than sharing official albums through a tree.




DJ's the man we love the most
inu-liger user not visiting Queenzone.com
inu-liger
Deity: 13057 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 20 Apr 05, 22:54 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Why would 7Digital allow 10 burns then, if we couldn't do anything with the other 9 CD-R discs other than keeping them to ourselves?

Here in Canada, we have a service called PureTracks, which is pretty much almost the same as 7Digital or iTunes. Their limit on burning is a maximum of 3 times (not as generous as 7Digital, but hey).

I have an aide at school who bought literally hundreds of dollars worth of songs on his credit card from PureTracks (I'm seriously not joking! These downloads are $0.99 CDN each too!), and he sometimes burnt CD's with these tracks for me and my fellow classmates (and our other aide as well, occassionally - depending on the music).

Here in Canada, it is legal to share the CD's which have been burnt with these such songs, as long as the rules regarding burning is followed, with other people. I have gotten music on CD-R legally this way from my above-mentioned aide.

I'm sure that these laws are the same in Euro countries, otherwise 7Digital would not be allowed to let people burn more than 1 CD-R per license.

If I can burn 10 CD's legally, why not share the ones I won't need to keep anyways? I don't need shelf filler discs!

Also, another thing is that with 7Digital, you can have the same download on up to 3 unique computers. I gave the person who helped me buy this a copy of the song from the download page, so he too owns a legal copy (but I later learnt that I had to put in my account e-mail and password in the Obtaining License box in Windows Media Player to get the license, and the person doesn't have this info, so tomorrow I will have to give him that).

So far, I've used 2 of the 3 downloads, but since I don't want anyone knowing my account info in order to get the 3rd download (if I were to offer that), I'm offering to burn the other 9 CD-R's instead.

Does what I say make sense?

inu-liger user not visiting Queenzone.com
inu-liger
Deity: 13057 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 20 Apr 05, 22:55 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Also, Zeni, it would be only like "sharing official albums" if I burnt more than 10 CD-R's by ripping the burnt tracks and making more copies that way. THEN that would be illegal, am I not right?

Maz user not visiting Queenzone.com

Deity: 5799 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 20 Apr 05, 23:41 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Inu Yasha<h6>a.k.a. Lum's Stormtrooper wrote:

Why would 7Digital allow 10 burns then, if we couldn't do anything with the other 9 CD-R discs other than keeping them to ourselves?

Here in Canada, we have a service called PureTracks, which is pretty much almost the same as 7Digital or iTunes. Their limit on burning is a maximum of 3 times (not as generous as 7Digital, but hey).


Asked and answered your own question. 7Digital probably allowed for 10 burns to be generous. A possible clue is found on their website:
Q) Will these downloads work with my iPod?
A) Not directly. However you can burn the tracks to a CD and use Apple iTunes to transfer from CD onto your iPod

Allowing 10 burns will let you make a back-up or two and transfer to your ipod. If they only allowed one burn, users would get angry. DRM's are not consumer friendly, so companies have to bend somewhere.


Also, another thing is that with 7Digital, you can have the same download on up to 3 unique computers. I gave the person who helped me buy this a copy of the song from the download page, so he too owns a legal copy (but I later learnt that I had to put in my account e-mail and password in the Obtaining License box in Windows Media Player to get the license, and the person doesn't have this info, so tomorrow I will have to give him that).


From their website:
Q) What does ‘License Acquisition' mean?
A) When you purchase a track, our system will issue you a personal license enabling you to play the track on up to 3 computers as well as burn the track to CD and transfer to a compatible portable music player.

My guess is that the personal license applies to one individual. That means when you bought the track, license was given to you to download three times, not for three people to download.

Inu Yasha<h6>a.k.a. Lum's Stormtrooper wrote:

Also, Zeni, it would be only like "sharing official albums" if I burnt more than 10 CD-R's by ripping the burnt tracks and making more copies that way. THEN that would be illegal, am I not right?


Use your head for a minute. 7Digital is a company that wants to make money. Why would they let you have 9 freebies to give away? The 10 burns are for your personal use and a way to keep the individual consumer happy. It is not a license to make 10 copies for sharing for free. 7Digital wouldn't survive otherwise.

As for your discussion on Canadian copyright law, I suspect there is a misunderstanding in there somewhere.






DJ's the man we love the most
Rien user not visiting Queenzone.com

Deity: 2204 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 21 Apr 05, 05:13 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Inu, I'm beginning to dislike the fact that you're more and more trying to start trees with official stuff. Sure you've been sharing too, and that's appreciated.
Sorry to say, but still in some way or another I'm getting a wrong feeling about this.



Feel free to visit my site - http://www.mercuryparadise.com

(Come into my life, it's a MercuryParadise)
willem-jan 8923 user not visiting Queenzone.com

Bohemian: 818 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 21 Apr 05, 06:15 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Rien wrote:

Inu, I'm beginning to dislike the fact that you're more and more trying to start trees with official stuff. Sure you've been sharing too, and that's appreciated.
Sorry to say, but still in some way or another I'm getting a wrong feeling about this.


You're not the only one. How retarded can you be thinking that it would be legal to give copies to your friends.....

agneepath! 11994 user not visiting Queenzone.com

Royalty: 1132 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 21 Apr 05, 06:36 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Agree with the replies.
On a personal note, I refuse to download the songs. Not because I'm tight (although 99p per song is far too much)but it would cost a bucketful to download all the songs.

Put the songs on a CD, with a nice booklet and I'll buy it.

Bottom line is... if you want all the downloads -buy them! There can be no other way.

I'm more than happy with the bootlegs which many people have graciously made available.

agneepath! 11994 user not visiting Queenzone.com

Royalty: 1132 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 21 Apr 05, 06:49 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Rien wrote:

Inu, I'm beginning to dislike the fact that you're more and more trying to start trees with official stuff. Sure you've been sharing too, and that's appreciated.
Sorry to say, but still in some way or another I'm getting a wrong feeling about this.


He seems to come out with these crazy ideas / schemes once a month.

proton user not visiting Queenzone.com
proton
Bohemian: 587 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 21 Apr 05, 07:27 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Not retarded at all!!!
A German LAWYER has searched and found out that giving free copies to your family or best friends is perfectly LEGAL!!! I saw him telling this on TV, so it's not some vague article in a newspaper.
Selling them is ofcourse not :-)



You're not the only one. How retarded can you be thinking that it would be legal to give copies to your friends.....


agneepath! 11994 user not visiting Queenzone.com

Royalty: 1132 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 21 Apr 05, 07:37 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

proton wrote:

Not retarded at all!!!
A German LAWYER has searched and found out that giving free copies to your family or best friends is perfectly LEGAL!!! I saw him telling this on TV, so it's not some vague article in a newspaper.
Selling them is ofcourse not :-)

How then, would you explain the recent case of EasyTree? The whole bootleg philosophy is, its ok because no one is losing money over them because there is no "product" available.

Would Queen Prod. lose any money from people giving away these downloads? Of course!

Besides, even if it is "ok" is it worth the risk?

proton user not visiting Queenzone.com
proton
Bohemian: 587 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 21 Apr 05, 07:56 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

the lawyer was referring to LEGAL CD's not bootlegs. He found some hole in the net of laws :-)

He did research after the copy-protecting thing was put into legal CD's

Wilki Amieva user not visiting Queenzone.com
We must all HEAR to believe
Wilki Amieva
Royalty: 1417 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 21 Apr 05, 08:13 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Damned parasite!!!

agneepath! 11994 user not visiting Queenzone.com

Royalty: 1132 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 21 Apr 05, 08:55 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

proton wrote:

the lawyer was referring to LEGAL CD's not bootlegs. He found some hole in the net of laws :-)

He did research after the copy-protecting thing was put into legal CD's


I repeat... is it worth the risk?

proton user not visiting Queenzone.com
proton
Bohemian: 587 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 21 Apr 05, 09:01 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

according to millions of people with cd/dvd writers.... uhhh....yeah? :-)

Wilki Amieva user not visiting Queenzone.com
We must all HEAR to believe
Wilki Amieva
Royalty: 1417 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 21 Apr 05, 09:10 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

...A little bit more seriously:

Inu Yasha<h6>a.k.a. Lum's Stormtrooper wrote:

Here in Canada, we have a service called PureTracks, which is pretty much almost the same as 7Digital or iTunes.


Do you mean the music service or the escort/dating service? (See the following thread:
http://www.queenzone.com/queenzone/forumnew/forum_topic_view.aspx?Q=510866 )

Here in Canada, it is legal to share the CD's which have been burnt with these such songs, as long as the rules regarding burning is followed, with other people. I have gotten music on CD-R legally this way from my above-mentioned aide.


...I'm really not that sure about the legal status of your CD-Rs. Obviously, it all depends on the purchased licenses. In the case of the QUEEN downloads, they have PERSONAL licenses and all of their rights are bound to the individuals who bought them. The same goes for iTunes and most music download services.

I'm sure that these laws are the same in Euro countries, otherwise 7Digital would not be allowed to let people burn more than 1 CD-R per license.


Your logic is bad here! In fact, there are good reasons to let the people burn the tracks to CD more than once. Remember that in most countries it is legal to copy your entire CD collection for backup reasons. In others, it is legal to have a DVD-R copy of a VHS you already have. The point is that when you buy music, you buy the right to access to it more than the media it is on. The same goes for the downloads.

Also, another thing is that with 7Digital, you can have the same download on up to 3 unique computers. I gave the person who helped me buy this a copy of the song from the download page, so he too owns a legal copy (but I later learnt that I had to put in my account e-mail and password in the Obtaining License box in Windows Media Player to get the license, and the person doesn't have this info, so tomorrow I will have to give him that).


Oh, my. If you have to put YOUR e-mail, that is because the license is PERSONAL. Read my comment above.

Does what I say make sense?


No, it does not.

Wilki Amieva user not visiting Queenzone.com
We must all HEAR to believe
Wilki Amieva
Royalty: 1417 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 21 Apr 05, 09:21 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

proton wrote:

Not retarded at all!!!
A German LAWYER has searched and found out that giving free copies to your family or best friends is perfectly LEGAL!!! I saw him telling this on TV, so it's not some vague article in a newspaper.
Selling them is ofcourse not :-)


There might be a legal hole on the German copyright acts, but I am pretty sure that is not the case on most countries (here in Argentina, LENDING your CDs is forbidden!). Ah, and just in case, do not believe in all you see on TV.

agneepath! 11994 user not visiting Queenzone.com

Royalty: 1132 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 21 Apr 05, 09:27 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

proton wrote:

according to millions of people with cd/dvd writers.... uhhh....yeah? :-)


I meant the risk to this site!

proton user not visiting Queenzone.com
proton
Bohemian: 587 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 21 Apr 05, 10:00 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

aha :-) well, it's better to have personal email contact to do these sort of things. There will always be fans who don't agree with such actions. And you never know whoelse is watching :-)
But the ones who have the highest risks are people with a dedicated website to sell bootlegs and maybe legal stuff. Specially if you got your website on a host in your own country :-)

Benn user not visiting Queenzone.com

Royalty: 1332 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 21 Apr 05, 10:18 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Surely, if you convert the tracks from the first burn into a different format, you can then save the track in the new format and burn as many copies as you like?


Benn