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decampos user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 16 May 05, 18:22 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Hi everybody. I've forever been a huge fan of queen (and of this site) so I thought I'd try and start an interesting debate and see if anyone can add their thoughts on 'the things that have always bugged me about queen':

• Roger Taylor
Not his drumming; his slightly sloppy style and his own distinctive use of the hi-hat is certainly part of the queen magic. What bugs me was his voice when singing live. It was mostly awful; hi pitched gravely off-key shrieking. There are live recordings where his attempts to harmonise with Brian and Freddie are utterly embarrassing.
In the studio, his song writing was for the most part atrocious and the lowest point of many of their albums. His insistence on singing them made them the more unbearable. Take these sore thumbs for example:

Modern Times Rock 'n' Roll
Loser In the End
Drowse
Fight From the Inside
Fun It
More of that Jazz
Rock It (Prime Jive)

• Brian's extraordinary guitar solos. My god, what an ego. Who else besides Anita Dobson actually enjoyed these pointless displays?

• Dearth of good non-album tracks
Many bands have a least half-decent songs as b-sides and not just reworked or straight album tracks.

• Their tendency to never stray too far from the standard setlist.
Throughout their many tours the band appeared to have a setlist they would never really deviate from. I wish they'd have taken more risks and varied the setlists from gig to gig like other bands.

• Synths and inviting other musicians on the road with them.
As far as I'm concerned their live shows from 1982 onwards were un-enjoyable thanks to the horrible plastic-sounding synths ruining even the old tunes.

• Brian and Roger's need for the spotlight.
The decent thing to do would be to have retired the name and not tarnish the legacy (and their dignity) with collaborations with all and sundry. They are already multi multi millionaires. Do they really need to suck that cash cow so damned dry? Is the latest 'tour' purely an ego thing? Freddie must be spinning in his grave. It's interesting that when Brian toured under his own name after the death of Freddie he used to encore with a re-working of John Lennon's 'God' singing the line: 'I don't believe in being Queen any more'.
... If only

What do you guys think?

Robin user not visiting Queenzone.com
Robin
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Posted: 16 May 05, 18:41 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Hi everybody. I've forever been a huge fan of queen (and of this site) so I thought I'd try and start an interesting debate and see if anyone can add their thoughts on 'the things that have always bugged me about queen':

• Roger Taylor
"What bugs me was his voice when singing live. It was mostly awful; hi pitched gravely off-key shrieking. There are live recordings where his attempts to harmonise with Brian and Freddie are utterly embarrassing."

All I can say to that is I don't agree. His harmosing was part of the Queen sound, and to do it while drumming is quite difficult. I love his voice.


"In the studio, his song writing was for the most part atrocious and the lowest point of many of their albums. His insistence on singing them made them the more unbearable. Take these sore thumbs for example:"

Modern Times Rock 'n' Roll
Loser In the End
Drowse
Fight From the Inside
Fun It
More of that Jazz
Rock It (Prime Jive)

All a matter of opinion. I've found that people either love RT's songs or hate em. I love them. And why shouldn't he sing them? He has a great voice and it's well suited to his songs.

"Brian's extraordinary guitar solos. My god, what an ego. Who else besides Anita Dobson actually enjoyed these pointless displays?"

I agree with you there. I enjoy his solo's but they do tend to drag on.



"Their tendency to never stray too far from the standard setlist.
Throughout their many tours the band appeared to have a setlist they would never really deviate from. I wish they'd have taken more risks and varied the setlists from gig to gig like other bands."

They gave the people what they wanted. Plus it's well known that they knew what songs would not work live.

"Synths and inviting other musicians on the road with them.
As far as I'm concerned their live shows from 1982 onwards were un-enjoyable thanks to the horrible plastic-sounding synths ruining even the old tunes."

Neither one of these really bother me. I like the band, I like the music.

"Brian and Roger's need for the spotlight.
The decent thing to do would be to have retired the name and not tarnish the legacy (and their dignity) with collaborations with all and sundry. They are already multi multi millionaires. Do they really need to suck that cash cow so damned dry? Is the latest 'tour' purely an ego thing? Freddie must be spinning in his grave."

I strongly disagree with all of that. They are musicians and they have every right to do what they want. It's obviously not for money. Why should they stop doing what they were born to do?
Just because Freddie died does not mean they should cease and decist all things Queen. It's their right and I love that they're doing it.
I also think that Freddie would be all for it.

What do you guys think?

That's what I think. ;)




Robin









Grantcdn user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 16 May 05, 20:37 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I get the feeling that you posted this to stir up the pot....so be it...

Roger's songs are some of the best songs Queen have ever done....I'm sorry but Fight From the Inside and Loser In the End are true classics....I crank them as loud as can be every time I get to those songs....many times I skip over the other ones to get there.....those songs are better than many of Freddie's....Modern Times and More of That Jazz are good too....I just didn't like the samples of other songs at the end of More of that Jazz (guitar work is cool!)...I think is voice is great too showing how talented Queen are (3 vocalists and 4 great songwriters - not many can claim that!)...

Brian's guitar solos - no ego there at all...fans live and breathe on every note....his guitar is a true voice....as recognizable as Freedie's vocals....

...and yes they should be touring....they don't need the money / they never did since 76....should they have stopped then???.....If Brian and Roger wanted money they would have kept touring from 92 on but they haven't....This one is for the FANS...because FANs have wanted them to play and make new music....If you don't like it stay home and listen to old albums....

....as for the synth sounds in tours since 82....I think only the 82 tour suffered....mainly due to the HotSpace sounds and the technology that was available....Spike is awesome....if anything they may add keys sometimes in parts where their not needed (I noticed this more on the Brian tours).....

Queen rock and live on forever!!
The Show Must Go On!!

G.

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Posted: 16 May 05, 22:11 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Nice one, decampos. I'm glad there's someone who's not afraid of criticising our favourite band. The last time I posted a similar message, well... Someone didn't appreciate that at all.

• Roger Taylor

I don't agree on the bits about his vocals being off-key shrieking. High pitched - yes, but that's one of the great things about Queen's vocal sound. Some hate his trademark scream at the start of 'In the Lap of the Gods', some doesn't care while some love it and I sure do. It's over the top. It's camp ("Camp is popularity plus vulgarity plus innocence", eh?). It's the Queen we all know and love!

On the other hand, I haven't always been that crazy about his hi-hat technique.

But I DO agree that his songs aren't always the best ones. I could've lived without Modern Times Rock & Roll, Fun It and More of That Jazz, for example.

• Brian's extraordinary guitar solos.

Agreed. I used to love his 'Brighton Rock' solo excesses, but sometimes it's just TOO much. Love his sound and way playing, though.

• Dearth of good non-album tracks.

They came up with one pretty good song - See What a Fool I've Been. But OK, a few great B-sides wouldn't have hurt.

• Their tendency to never stray too far from the standard setlist.

True. They should've done more obscure songs or even a cover now and then (which they did on occasion), but when they DO stray a bit from the set list it's great (i.e. the rock & roll medley's, a few select album tracks not heard too often). A pity there's no really unique performances to be found on the live recordings.

• Synths and inviting other musicians on the road with them.

I'm not sure if I agree on that one, but since I mostly listen to 70's Queen, I don't care that much. One thing that's REALLY been bothering me is Brian's overuse of guitar chorus during concerts in the 80's. Perhaps I'm just nitpicking, but WHOA!

• Brian and Roger's need for the spotlight.

I believe the Beatles set a great example in this case. Not getting back together again or doing one-off reunion gigs is probably the best thing they ever did after breaking up (I'm actually a huge Beatles fan, in case that's not clear). The legacy (and the song) remains. Still, Brian and Roger are free to do whatever they want and feel like. After all, we got the old LP's...

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Posted: 17 May 05, 05:40 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Thanks humanoidboogie. It's nice to have some reasoned and well-considered discussion to my post (amid the flamings from queen zealots).

I haven't got any problems with roger's contribution to the harmonies on the records, it's just his live singing I can't stand.

I agree with you about Brian's over use of chorus in the 80s. His guitar always sounded coated in honey. That was very much of the time though.

I appreciated the analogy with the Beatles. I'm also a huge fan of theirs.

I thought of another point that bugs me:
I really hate the way queen would shorten some songs when played live. Death on two legs, Good old Fashioned lover boy, You're my best friend to name but a few. Surely that must annoy everyone here.


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Posted: 17 May 05, 08:37 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I don't mind Roger's singing but I agree with you on all of these points. Especially about Brian's guitar solo.
Roger once said something like "if people would go for a hot dog during a drum solo cos they're bored he wouldn't want to do it" (or something like that)
Well.. that's the way I feel about Brian's guitar solo...
If I'd been at, say, Wembley, I'd probably have felt like going for a hot dog during his guitar solo...


"This world may be another planet's hell."

- Aldous Huxley
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Posted: 17 May 05, 10:48 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

i was about to rip you, but then i read the post and realized i agree with alot of things you said, brians live guitar solo , talented yes, but after a listen or two it gets boring. i like roger, i like his voice, he adds a hard rock edge to queen's music, but i have to admit, on most queen albums of the 70's, it's rogers songs i usually skip, and are my least favorites, 'more of that jazz' and 'loser in the end' are good examples of that. i also like some of his songs like 'sheer heart attack' and 'tenament funster,' so i think he's a mixed bag as a songwriter. i disagree with you about them playing again, i thinks it's a great idea, and adds to the queen legacy.

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Posted: 17 May 05, 11:23 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

decampos wrote:

What bugs me was his voice when singing live.

Disagree- I love his voice. Matter of taste if you ask me. IMO it was actually Brian in the early days who was very often off key when doing BVs... Just listen STL from earls Court- terrible...

decampos wrote:

In the studio, his song writing was for the most part atrocious and the lowest point of many of their albums.

I prefer Fight From The Inside to We Are The Champions.
I prefer Modern Times Rock'n'roll To don't stop Me Now.
Again- disagree completely...

decampos wrote:

• Brian's extraordinary guitar solos. My god, what an ego. Who else besides Anita Dobson actually enjoyed these pointless displays?

What pissed me off on this tour is the fact that almost every night he played pretty muchg the same bloody thing... And let's be honest- it wasn't god knows how good... Agreed- sorry Bri!

decampos wrote:

• Dearth of good non-album tracks
Many bands have a least half-decent songs as b-sides and not just reworked or straight album tracks.

Agreed completely!!! Why didn't they even use unreleased BBC sessions as B-sides? Or some more live recordings from unreleased shows... I just look at Metallica's singles and I'm jealous. On almost every single one of them there's either a rare live recording or work-in-progress versions of well known tracks...

decampos wrote:

• Their tendency to never stray too far from the standard setlist.
Throughout their many tours the band appeared to have a setlist they would never really deviate from. I wish they'd have taken more risks and varied the setlists from gig to gig like other bands.

Oh yes, Agreed completely. Funny- this tour actually wasn't that bad! Compare Brixton with Belfast and you've got two pretty different shows! But yes- that's why I don't like Magic tour; simply boring... Freddie even uses the same lines between the songs

decampos wrote:

• Synths and inviting other musicians on the road with them.
As far as I'm concerned their live shows from 1982 onwards were un-enjoyable thanks to the horrible plastic-sounding synths ruining even the old tunes.

This year's tour was the first time I really enjoyed what Spike was doing. But yeah- even more though on records. i really don't like the sound of 80s... I love 70s, rock and guitar orchestrations. AKOM and WORKS are my least fav albums... In fact- I almost don't listen to them at all...

decampos wrote:

• Brian and Roger's need for the spotlight. (...) Is the latest 'tour' purely an ego thing? Freddie must be spinning in his grave.

Please, let's not start that one again...
Have you seen any of those shows? I saw 6- it was fuckin' brilliant. Is Freddie turning in his grave? Give me a brake...
We had about 100 pages of that QUEEN RIP 19991 crap. Sorry.
Fred was the one who said to Brian to release Driven By you because his death would be the best marketing he could get. What pisses me off really are people who think they know better what Freddie or John would or do think... Freddie's mum was present in Sheffield at the gig. Had she thought the whole tour is a dancing on the grave she wouldn't have gone... They moved on with their lives- about time the fans did he same...

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Posted: 17 May 05, 15:43 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Fenderek wrote:


Have you seen any of those shows? I saw 6- it was fuckin' brilliant

Yeah, but essentially they've become their own tribute band. They are a completely spent force creatively and artistically.

Fenderek wrote:

....What pisses me off really are people who think they know better what Freddie or John would or do think...

I'm not claiming know better than both Freddie or John, I just think that Brian and Roger's shameless cash in on the Queen franchise is disgusting and collaborations with five, WyCleff Jean, Robbie Williams (!!!!!) and others embarrasses and depresses me greatly.

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Posted: 17 May 05, 20:57 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Hey I can agree with you on the Wyclef Jean, 5ive (although that wasn't that bad), and Robbie...but this Tour Rocks....and again it ain't for the money (that is the lamest comment yet - with all their money that can't be the motivation...what else could they need!)....can't Brian and Roger do the things they love and bring it to all their fans....if you're not one of them, just don't go...

Queen live on forever! The show must go on!!

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Posted: 18 May 05, 01:09 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I don't think they're doing it for the money but I agree on the ego thing. Especially Brian seems to need Ego Boosts every now and then. Or maybe all the time.


"This world may be another planet's hell."

- Aldous Huxley
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Posted: 18 May 05, 03:34 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sonja wrote:

I don't think they're doing it for the money but I agree on the ego thing. Especially Brian seems to need Ego Boosts every now and then. Or maybe all the time.

Who doesn't? :)
Tell me honestly- who doesn't?
That's how it is with us from Mars- we NEED ego boosts every one in a while. It's something absolutely natural IMO... Not something one can change... :)

decampos wrote:

I just think that Brian and Roger's shameless cash in on the Queen franchise is disgusting and collaborations with five, WyCleff Jean, Robbie Williams (!!!!!) and others embarrasses and depresses me greatly.

Robbie- YES! I was absolutely gutted when I heard they collaborated with him. Sme with 5Ive or Will Young etc. But Paul Rodgers man- that's one of the best singeres there ever was n rock. EVER! Not pop- ROCK! That was their best decission since releasing Made In Heaven...
And I don't think it's for the money. Musical earned already about 14 millionpounds. Go figure, that's not something they need desperately...



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Posted: 18 May 05, 09:12 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

i say i'd have to agree with you,esp Brian's solos they do go on a bit sometimes. However i disagree with your views on Roger's voice; like Fenderek i thought it was Brian who had probs with his voice during live performances.plus; Roger's voice kicks-ass!IMO, that is! and this tour 'ego' thing i couldnt really care less cos i get a chance to see arguably the best rockers ever live, rather than watching footage mostly of which i wasn't alive to see.


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Posted: 28 May 05, 04:17 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Good Topic.
I agree that some of Roger's songs are truely awful -- but it hit me that he may be a genius. His songs are deceptively simple to a point of ingenuity -- Ex. "Fight From the Inside" -- on the surface, very simple and somewhat grating --
But what's so amazing about the song is that the bridge (part before the chorus) is 4 bars long and consists solely of a scream being held for 4 bars with a Bflat9th chord underneath -- Has anybody else heard a song where the bridge consists of a scream ?!! Not to mention being held over a complex jazz chord.

Also, Radio GaGa has great chord progression comparable with the complexity of Fred's on Bohemian R

But to stick to your topic --
Fred mustachio for a while till I got used to it and his phallic microphone gesturing -- but that's history.

Brian's afro is annoying -- he needs to chop it off already and focus on writing some better music with Rog. The 70's are over.


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Posted: 28 May 05, 06:30 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

On having other musicians on stage with them....particularly on the HS tour.....after watching On Fire and hearing a few bootlegs....I generally like the synths....they're not quite as obtrusive as they are on Hot Space itself....(I always HATED that synth solo on Action This Day, and its much more nicely done on On Fire)

and listen to CLTCL live from Japan on Disc 2 of On Fire....its better than the one from Milton Keynes, I think, and thats due to Morgan Fisher's piano....he's just going to town on that one!


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Posted: 29 May 05, 00:13 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

decampos wrote:

• Their tendency to never stray too far from the standard setlist.
Throughout their many tours the band appeared to have a setlist they would never really deviate from. I wish they'd have taken more risks and varied the setlists from gig to gig like other bands.


Not only the setlists, but the same order of the songs, the same way to play and sing them:

Typical order: Starting Rocker / Medley / hits / impromptu / brian's solo / Love of my life / Bo Rhap / final rocker / encore / WWRY-WATC

And they could stick to the same setlist for the whole tour as I've heard on many bootlegs, which sounded almost identical.

Not bad to have one or two shows from a same tour, but to have more can be somewhat boring.

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Posted: 29 May 05, 06:39 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

"• Dearth of good non-album tracks
Many bands have a least half-decent songs as b-sides and not just reworked or straight album tracks.

• Their tendency to never stray too far from the standard setlist.
Throughout their many tours the band appeared to have a setlist they would never really deviate from. I wish they'd have taken more risks and varied the setlists from gig to gig like other bands.

• Synths and inviting other musicians on the road with them.
As far as I'm concerned their live shows from 1982 onwards were un-enjoyable thanks to the horrible plastic-sounding synths ruining even the old tunes."

I agree on the non-album tracks, particularly after Live Aid they decided to re-release hits as b-sides (Who Wants To Live Forever w/Killer Queen, for example). What b-sides there are though, are pretty solid - I Go Crazy, See What A Fool I've Been, Hijack My Heart etc....

The setlists particularly became humdrum once starting the Jazz tour - would have been nice to have varied the starts/finishes more often and included songs from previous albums which had never been done before; although Teo Torriatte & Love Of My Life were done so, It'd have been nice to have seen Dead On Time, Long Away & Fight From The Inside appear on The Magic Tour.

Regarding the synths and other musicians - the only complaint I have is with Save Me on the Hot Space tour - too much organ/synths instead of the piano !



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Posted: 30 May 05, 00:30 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Brian's best guitar solos were the ones that would end with an improv with drums and bass(Earls Court 1977, Live Killers and We Will Rock You 1981). The guitar solo on the NOTW tour was after White Man and he didn't do the same solo, he would try different things each time, like he did a few parts of his solo without delays(listen to Houston 1977). The Live Killers and We Will Rock You 1981 solos also had Roger drum solos on the tympani. Roger is my favorite member of Queen. His songs are fantastic on the Queen albums from 1973 to 1984. The only song of his with Queen I didn't like was Don't Lose Your Head but the rest rocked, especially the ones he sang like Drowse, I'm In Love With My Car, Rock It and so forth.


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Posted: 30 May 05, 03:57 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote


• Roger Taylor
Not his drumming; his slightly sloppy style and his own distinctive use of the hi-hat is certainly part of the queen magic. What bugs me was his voice when singing live. It was mostly awful; hi pitched gravely off-key shrieking. There are live recordings where his attempts to harmonise with Brian and Freddie are utterly embarrassing.
-------------------------------------------------
Rog's Off-Key Vocals may be do to a lack of moniter near him, and thus his inability to hear during the live performances.

Another thing about Roger's live vocals, I've heard some where he has had to cover for Fred on the High parts because of Fred's vocal exhaustion.
Ex. I believe it was a live version of Teo T. (Let us Cling Together) recorded in Japan.


But what is annoying live is when they used to leave the stage during the Opera part of Bohemian R. I've heard live performances from the 70's whereby they would begin the song with Bohemian, transition into Killer Queen, transition into the rocking part of March of the Black Queen, and then do the ending of Bohemian. This was much, much better.

I don't understand tho why they never did the Opera part live -- even Simon and Garfunkle could pull that off. Roger sings the high part, Fred the second highest, Brian the lower and John the bass.



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Posted: 30 May 05, 09:30 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

decampos wrote:


• Roger Taylor
Not his drumming; his slightly sloppy style and his own distinctive use of the hi-hat is certainly part of the queen magic. What bugs me was his voice when singing live. It was mostly awful; hi pitched gravely off-key shrieking. There are live recordings where his attempts to harmonise with Brian and Freddie are utterly embarrassing.
In the studio, his song writing was for the most part atrocious and the lowest point of many of their albums. His insistence on singing them made them the more unbearable. Take these sore thumbs for example:

Modern Times Rock 'n' Roll
Loser In the End
Drowse
Fight From the Inside
Fun It
More of that Jazz
Rock It (Prime Jive)?


I thnka RMT's vocal add some rawness to the Queen sound. Take for example 'I go Crazy' (Radio Gaga B-side) the scream at then end of the last chorus is great. As for the 'Hammer to Fall' backings live, killer!

As for the songs mentioned, I quite like Loser, Drowse, fight and Jazz. But then maybe it's a "drummer's song" and being one I may aprreciate them more. Who knows.


decampos wrote:


• Brian's extraordinary guitar solos. My god, what an ego. Who else besides Anita Dobson actually enjoyed these pointless displays??


He has come up with quite a sound with the harmonies and echos, you got to give him that. On record, it can get quite boring, but live was nice.

decampos wrote:


• Dearth of good non-album tracks
Many bands have a least half-decent songs as b-sides and not just reworked or straight album tracks.?


Well, must admit that appart from 'I go Crazy', the B-sides are not my favourites.


decampos wrote:



• Their tendency to never stray too far from the standard setlist.
Throughout their many tours the band appeared to have a setlist they would never really deviate from. I wish they'd have taken more risks and varied the setlists from gig to gig like other bands.?


The problem with a gig is the audience is so divers in taste and following, you have to make a choice. Tours are made to promote a record sale. Bands don't often make money off the tours.
As much as I'd have loved to hear Motörhead play more obscure songs, not getting 'Overkill' at the end would be quite a loss. Many songs can be left back, but could you go to a Queen gig without getting 'Tie your mother down'?
Experimenting would have been nice, but if you go through the bootlegs availble, you do find some nice surprises.


decampos wrote:


• Synths and inviting other musicians on the road with them.
As far as I'm concerned their live shows from 1982 onwards were un-enjoyable thanks to the horrible plastic-sounding synths ruining even the old tunes. ?


Wasn't there. But I do prefer the pre-Day at the races gigs.



decampos wrote:


• Brian and Roger's need for the spotlight.
The decent thing to do would be to have retired the name and not tarnish the legacy (and their dignity) with collaborations with all and sundry. They are already multi multi millionaires. Do they really need to suck that cash cow so damned dry? Is the latest 'tour' purely an ego thing? Freddie must be spinning in his grave. It's interesting that when Brian toured under his own name after the death of Freddie he used to encore with a re-working of John Lennon's 'God' singing the line: 'I don't believe in being Queen any more'.
... If only

What do you guys think?


I'm not keen on the new tour also, but I saw it in order to say this. I don't know about you, sorry. As a musician, I can understand them wanting/needing to play these songs. also, it keeps the name Queen in the minds of the new generation that never got to see them play. It was a nice treet for the younger fans, as it seems the majority of them


with fish and bacon, please