Forums > Fan mixes > Mother Love (Baboolal mix)

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Adam Baboolal user not visiting Queenzone.com
Adam Baboolal
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Posted: 26 Aug 05, 10:11 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Well, I gave in and did this one as a favour to a zoner who didn't like the baby crying at the end. This, however, is a radically different ending. You may love it or hate it. I should probably call this the sentimental mix!

Details:

A few surprises littered throughout the track. But this mix mainly clears up the ending into a sweet little outro.

I have added some slight mastering values to the instrumental version from the eYe as its level was hugely different to the final track from the MIH album. There's also some enhancement to the track, though I won't say what I've done! And I've also added some values to the overall mix to make things sit better.

Hope you like it folks. It's a 10.7MB download - http://rapidshare.de/files/4390155/Mother_Love_-_Adam_Baboolal_Mix.mp3.html

Peace,
Adam.

PERMANENT LINK! - http://www.mediafire.com/?0o2mmkpsby3 (FLAC COPY)

Penis - Vagina user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 26 Aug 05, 10:51 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Well folks, that's how it's done.

Adam, you've more than proven yourself here. This is perfection. Not only did you create a new version.. you made the whole thing sound 10 times better than the original!

I hope that whenever you have time, you'll do similar things with other tracks, and let me know of any files you might need to work with. If I have them, they're yours.

I was starting to wonder if you were ever going to post this.. it sure was worth the wait! Thanks :)

Adam Baboolal user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 26 Aug 05, 11:15 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Thankyou for the kind words, J. Btw, as a little fun thing to do - reverse the ending part and I think you'll get a nice surprise. :) You'll probably recognise it!

Peace,
Adam.

Penis - Vagina user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 26 Aug 05, 11:29 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Well I hate to spoil anyone else's surprise but I'm probably wrong anyway.. is it the Highlander mix of WWTLF with the birds?

I can hear the thunder from the start of IWBTLY somewhere in there too...

Adam Baboolal user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 26 Aug 05, 12:04 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Wow, I haven't used either of those. If you don't wanna know what it is, don't scroll down folks!
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WWTLF (bonus track) Forever piano and strings.

There's a mixture of other bits and pieces in the ending. Loads! Things from It's A Hard Life, Track 13, soloed vocals, etc.

Peace,
Adam.

Zander05 user not visiting Queenzone.com
Zander05
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Posted: 26 Aug 05, 16:08 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I am sorry to say that apart from the ending, I didn't much like it. Well, I do - but I was expecting there to be less subtle differences and stuff. I'll give this another listen later and try to critique it better. I feel like I'm not giving it proper justice.

Adam Baboolal user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 26 Aug 05, 17:01 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Zander05 wrote:

I am sorry to say that apart from the ending, I didn't much like it. Well, I do - but I was expecting there to be less subtle differences and stuff. I'll give this another listen later and try to critique it better. I feel like I'm not giving it proper justice.


I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. You don't like the song? This was created to change the ending for a couple of zoners who disliked the baby crying thing. So, first and foremost, I didn't want to change much at all.
But I did add a few subtle changes here and there. But what I'm most happy about is making it sound good overall.

Peace,
Adam.

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Posted: 26 Aug 05, 17:18 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Adam, you really made a great work : congratulations :)

I was one of those who didn't like this baby crying, now I think this mix gives finally this song justice. When Daniel vZ made a great effort I found his version (no offense to you Daniel!) not "original" enough. For exemple repeating twice the last verse was too noticeable.

This mix is really great and I can't wait to listen to it on my stereo system. Thanks guy ;)

John S Stuart user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 26 Aug 05, 18:24 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sorry Adam. Fan mixes you either like them - or you don't, and unfortunately, I don't.

Let's start with good mixes. These add "something" to the original. If good mixes are compared to art, it would be like Andy Warhol's colourised prints of Marilyn Monroe. The original B& W photograph is retouched - glamourised, technoized, and churned out for mass-capitalised reproduction,allowing everyone to own their own little piece of her - adding a unique "personality" which reflects poor Marilyn's tortured lifestyle.

Likewise, Jimi Hendrix's "Star Spangled Banner" reproduces the chaos of the late 1960's USA, and reflects a nation's distain of the Vietnam war (amongst other internal socio-political problems).

But bad fan mixes - are cheap art. Like painting a beard on the Mona Lisa, or adding Mickey Mouse ears on a Rembrandt. They offer nothing unique or original - and do nothing but retract from the original source.

I think you mix is technically very good, but in doing so, you rob the track of it's very soul.

Mother Love is about life and death. It is about the unique bond that exists between a mother and child. (In a sense it echoes the "Loser In The End" sentiments of Queen II).

It is about a dying son, who unaturally will die before his parents. That is the tragedy. That is the sadness. Ofcourse, being ambigious, the song may well be about a partner (gay, surrogate or otherwise) but it is certainly about MOTHER love - or love like a mother shares. It is not about sex, passion or even romance. It is about unconditional, blinding love.

I don't want to sleep with you...
All I want is the comfort and care
Just to know that my woman gives me sweet -
Mother love

I'm a man of the world and they say I'm strong
But my heart is heavy and my hope is gone

Out in the city, in the cold world outside
I don't want pity, just safe place to hide
Mama please, let me back inside...

That final sentence...

Mama please, let me back inside...

Is all about a return to the safety and security of the symbolic womb. ("just safe place to hide")

This sentiment is repeated by the "Going Back" and the final Baby's cry.

So for me, to rip the very heart from the track, because a few on here "do not get it", is tantimount to vandalism.

As I say, technically accomplished, but poetically bereft.

Sorry If I appear a bit unforgiving. It's nothing personal, but basically you have just p*ssed on one of my favoutite tracks, and I feel that it demonstrates that if you want to remix - we need to ask ourselves "why" first.



"Listen to them. Children of the night. What music they make."
Lord Fickle user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 26 Aug 05, 18:25 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

This is what I've been waiting for! At last, my chance for revenge!! Lol! ;)

Most annoyingly, technically, I can't fault this, apart from having to turn my desktop subwoofer down a notch. I would suggest, however, more delay throughout, and some unintentional phasing would make this perfect. :P :P (joking!)

But seriously, a very nice mix, and I like the use of the eYe instrumental section, particularly the guitar at 4:31, (from It's A Hard Life?), and the ethereal ending, although I have to agree with JSS to some extent, in that the removal of the baby crying, does somewhat detract from the essence of the track, but I realise you have done as was requested.

Splendid work, Adam. :)




Remember to deliver with the speed of light

A little bit of love and joy
Adam Baboolal user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 26 Aug 05, 20:44 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

John S Stuart wrote:

Sorry If I appear a bit unforgiving. It's nothing personal...


Yeah right, it's not personal.

John S Stuart wrote:

...but basically you have just p*ssed on one of my favoutite tracks, and I feel that it demonstrates that if you want to remix - we need to ask ourselves "why" first.


First of all - NO-ONE here has to stop themselves and ask "why" on anything they do. It's all about their creative side and it's all unique to the individual, good or bad. There's no need for that remark. I think you just insulted everyone who sits and does these remixes.
And I'll get to that other point about pissing on one of your favourite tracks in the best possible way. To talk about the other ML remix...


What I find amazing about your review John is that you never said this about DanielZ's remix which cuts up many portions of the track and also removes a lot more than myself. And somehow, I get this lashing of a review from you. I just get that feeling, you know? Like there's something spiteful to this so-called "review."

Anyway, I guess I should explain some things that I inserted for my reinterpretation...

I used a special bass track to highlight the high and low points of Freddie's story in the track. And the ending was supposed to be a release. An end that in one way was a good thing and bad in another. The only thing that was truly cut from the original track was the Goin' Back part and the baby's cry. And somehow I've ruined the song??

I think you're lashing out at me. Look at how Fickle's review approached things. He didn't launch some lavish attack on the mix. He didn't need to because even though he also felt similarly about the removal of the very last seconds of the track, he knew to judge it accordingly. It doesn't change things as much as you say it does.

Why do you always attack me? Do you hold grudges? If so, does it make you feel better to attack me like this? I'm actually disappointed as I actually thought you could move on from the past disagreements. Wow, was I wrong. This makes me very sad.
If you want to prove me wrong about this attack, you'll write something similarly harsh in DanielZ's Mother Love thread.

Peace,
Adam.

Adam Baboolal user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 26 Aug 05, 20:49 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Lord Fickle wrote:

...and I like the use of the eYe instrumental section, particularly the guitar at 4:31, (from It's A Hard Life?), and the ethereal ending, although I have to agree with JSS to some extent, in that the removal of the baby crying, does somewhat detract from the essence of the track, but I realise you have done as was requested.

Splendid work, Adam. :)


Thanks Mi-Lord! You know this is the second time someone has said they hear something that doesn't actually occur in the mix! I find this fascinating. I didn't add any guitar, though to tell the truth, I almost added some harmony stuff near the end. But I couldn't. I wanted to leave things as they were. A clear-cut ending with minimal additions to the song.

You know, I might have to add-in the Goin' Back and Baby thing now. I never realised I'd get this much agro for it! In fact, the baby was in there. But then I remembered the request and took it back out. Hmm... whadya think? One with and one without for download?

Peace,
Adam.

John S Stuart user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 26 Aug 05, 20:59 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Adam: "What I find amazing about your review John is that you never said this about DanielZ's remix which cuts up many portions of the track."

First, I have never heard it. If you want to re-read that particular thread, you will see that I have made no comment - because of that reason.

Second: The only reason I downloaded YOUR version was because I read the review: "Jeffrey Todd... Adam, you've more than proven yourself here. This is perfection. Not only did you create a new version.. you made the whole thing sound 10 times better than the original!"

If not for that recommendation, possibly, I would not have downloaded YOUR version either, but, with that sort of publicity, I thought I would give it a try!

However, I strongly disagree with Jeffrey on this occassion. That has nothing to do with personlities, some mixes work - others don't - and for me (as I alluded to above) this is a bit like p*ssing on a Picasso.

Your claim: "The only thing that was truly cut from the original track was the Goin' Back part and the baby's cry. And somehow I've ruined the song??" Is a bit like a doctor saying - I can't understand why the patient died, I only cut his heart out!

Let me spell it out very clearly. I have nothing against you. I do not hold grudges. I think that technically speaking - you have done a good job. But a large part of the musical experience is emotion. Both Hollywood and Hitler knew that, and used it to great effect.

I hate this mix. I hate it with a passion - not because it is a bad mix per-say, but for me, it kills the track dead. (But that again, is MY opinion).

Please do not use that fact as a way of saying "if I don't like the track - then I don't like you..." it does not work like that. This is a public forum, and you invited the replies, and in essence although Jeffrey and I disagree, we are both entitled to our opinions.

To sum up what I think of your mix (I quote from above): "As I say, technically accomplished, but poetically bereft."

Is that not a fair if not succint criticism?



"Listen to them. Children of the night. What music they make."
Adam Baboolal user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 26 Aug 05, 21:08 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

John S Stuart wrote:

I have never heard it.


Here ya go:

http://www.queenzone.com/queenzone/forumnew/forum_topic_view.aspx?Q=598873

Peace,
Adam.

P.S. Would you like a version with Going Back and the baby's crying? If you want it, you got it.

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Posted: 26 Aug 05, 21:31 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Adam Baboolal: "If you want to prove me wrong about this attack, you'll write something similarly harsh in DanielZ's Mother Love thread... Here ya go..."

http://www.queenzone.com/queenzone/forumnew/forum_topic_view.aspx?Q=598873

So you want me to criticise his mix - because I criticised yours?

Come on Adam, as I said above, because your mix recieved such a great recommendation, I thought I would give it a spin. No problem. I did not like it. Still no problem. No agro there I'm afraid.

But mixes can do that. Some listners will love them. Others will hate them. You can not please everyone. But, you must be prepared to take the rough with the smooth, and you cannot expect 100% positive feedback.

My criticism was not the technical achievement, nor was it the musical side of the arrangement. I feel that my (justified) criticism was that you took away the "soul" and the very "heart" of the piece, and what remained behind (for me) was a cold lifeless shell, and that is for me, as much a musical criticism as saying "your B# is out of tune".

P.S. Would you like a version with Going Back and the baby's crying? If you want it, you got it.

No Adam - no need to put it back. I can always listen to the Queen original!

But I would like you to think about what you have written. I have nothing against you. And I have said that the mix works on many levels. But you can not expect to scribble a beard on the "Mona Lisa" and have all your "customers" enjoy it.

I wonder how Wyclef Jean would feel if he knew that I criticise his "Another One Bites The Dust" or Rick Ruben for his "We Will Rock You" remixes? Do you really believe that they would assume these were personal grudges also?




"Listen to them. Children of the night. What music they make."
Adam Baboolal user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 26 Aug 05, 22:08 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

You know what it is? I just don't like being singled out and told that I just pissed on their favourite song. Because, at the end of the day, everyone who has contributed mixes here in the past has done this in one way or another.
That was my reasoning for you to also say the same about any other mix that does the same with that particular song. Why should I have to take this harsh criticism and yet no other? Bit of discrimination in that way of thinking, don't you think? I did state that I changed the ending entirely and that should've been a warning sign if you hold the song in such high regard.

And we're back at my original thought. Why should I be singled out in all this remixing malarky?

I suggest that in the future, you take any people's opinions in this section of Queenzone with a pinch of salt and possibly even ignore it entirely.

Peace,
Adam.

John S Stuart wrote:


No Adam - no need to put it back. I can always listen to the Queen original!


The point of mixes is that they're not like the original, therefore, you'd have something new and different to listen to if you wanted. Hence why I asked. The original is the original. Someone's remix is something different. An alternative.

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Posted: 26 Aug 05, 22:15 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

What struck me immediately was the sound quality.. even in MP3 form, being improved. I can't say what it is really.. just a cleaner, more pleasing sound than the original (In my opinion). Freddie's vocal even seems improved somehow. And the little added sounds here and there were tastefully done and provided a nice surprise after having heard the original countless times. Then I thought the instrumental section came into the mix beautifully and the sound quality matched seamlessly. The final ending parts were so interesting as to keep me wanting more and wondering what I'd hear next..

So to sum that up, it simply sounds better overall, has nice unexpected touches throughout and it accomplishes what it sets out to do. Technically perfect in my opinion, nothing to indicate that it wasn't "professionally" done. And I can not complain about anything missing from the original.. since that was the whole idea! It's supposed to be missing something, as was requested.

I've always felt that MIH was a bit too loud for its own good. That perhaps dynamically it suffered for being so loud. The 2001 remaster waveform shows that they reduced the volume a bit.. it's chopped to a uniform level straight across. This actually might be an area where you would disagree with me Adam.. but I hear a sort of flatness throughout most of the original album. The instrumental mixes we've heard from the tracks actually sound better to me (especially IWBTLY.. hearing the karaoke version really blew me away and I instantly loved the song much more than I did originally). And I hear the same sort of improved sound in your mix here. Maybe others don't even notice it.. or maybe I'm crazy, but it's more pleasing to my ears than the original. Comparing them now I find that I'm right.. the muddiness is gone in your mix and Freddie sounds so much better. Am I nuts? :)

So that's where I'm coming from. I see John's point about the meaningfullness of everything in the original... but I disagree that seemingly the whole idea is ruined by the exclusion of a couple things. On the contrary, I think the song still works when the listener is left hanging, expecting perfect closure but instead it just sort of slips away... if I was the philosophical type, I could argue that the point is made either way. Actually this might be an interesting topic elsewhere, but I've always wondered how others felt about the choice to put the track early on in the album, rather than a more obvious position nearer to the end...

The way I see it, we aren't going to have anything new from the Freddie years for awhile, so if fans want to manipulate things, try out different ideas.. what does it hurt? To me, the heart and soul of Queen is the 15 studio albums and nothing can change that. Some songs may be considered sacred territory, but in the end, they're all just as disposable as tissues, right? If someone wants to give it a go removing the opera section from Bo Rhap.. good for them! The original is still there...

I think John's comments can probably be summed up simply by saying "I don't like the idea, but it's technically good". So try to look at it that way Adam :)

Edit: It took me so long to write this that a few new posts have appeared since, so forgive any oversights..

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Posted: 27 Aug 05, 04:43 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Lord Fickle wrote:

...and I like the use of the eYe instrumental section, particularly the guitar at 4:31, (from It's A Hard Life?), and the ethereal ending, although I have to agree with JSS to some extent, in that the removal of the baby crying, does somewhat detract from the essence of the track, but I realise you have done as was requested.

Splendid work, Adam. :)

Adam Baboolal wrote:

Thanks Mi-Lord! You know this is the second time someone has said they hear something that doesn't actually occur in the mix! I find this fascinating. I didn't add any guitar, though to tell the truth, I almost added some harmony stuff near the end. But I couldn't. I wanted to leave things as they were. A clear-cut ending with minimal additions to the song.


So, where's that guitar bit from? I know I've heard it before, and it's bugging me!

Adam Baboolal wrote:

You know, I might have to add-in the Goin' Back and Baby thing now. I never realised I'd get this much agro for it! In fact, the baby was in there. But then I remembered the request and took it back out. Hmm... whadya think? One with and one without for download?


I think by doing that, you might as well call it a 'remastered' version of the original track. Then you'll get other complaints. I know, I've been there and got the t-shirt!


Remember to deliver with the speed of light

A little bit of love and joy
Adam Baboolal user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 27 Aug 05, 09:30 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Well, ya see, I didn't add any guitar bits at all. The only obvious inclusion would be the piano track parts. And they only appear at start, middle and end. The rest are just little vocal bits and bobs here and there.

I listened at the 4:31 point, but I only hear the guitar Brian originally recorded for the song. Maybe you've never heard it as clear as that before? Freddie's vocal is usually way high at that bit for the "out in the city" part.

Peace,
Adam.

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Posted: 27 Aug 05, 09:49 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Yeah, of course it is. Hadn't really listened to the eYe mix much before.


Remember to deliver with the speed of light

A little bit of love and joy