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FreddiesGhettoTrench user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 13 Oct 05, 06:53 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

More drama. Ugh.

I have a brother who is fifteen. He is autistic and has been to four schools in the past three years because of our district's incompetence. The first one they moved him out of because of his tantrums.

The second we pulled him out of because they kept sending him home in the middle of the day if he had a tantrum or making my aunt come get him (our immediate family does not own a car), and they were threatening to call the cops on my brother, or place him nonconsensually in a mental institution, or call CYS on us because it *must* be *our* fault.

The third one the district put him in temporarily because we sued them under the crap that was going on in the second. Then they were trying to browbeat us into doing Homebound (where the teacher goes to the home and teaches the student), which we couldn't do since my dad works all day. then the district sent my brother back to the second school but kept the same teacher he had at the third school.

Now he is at a fourth school, and more B.S. is going on. Today my brother did not get home until 7:30PM, because the school, which is an hour and a half away, had a "bus issue". My brother threw a tantrum on the bus the day before, so the bus driver refused to pick him up today. My brother is not a bad kid...he is frickin autistic. He was waiting at the school for like three hours while they called another bus to go down and get them. And the bus driver lied and said he talked to my father, which he did not.

I can't believe these things are allowed to go on. Doesn't this constitute discrimination??


"Brian May, Freddie will."
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Posted: 13 Oct 05, 07:39 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I wish I have problems like that with bus instead of mine ones...

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Posted: 13 Oct 05, 07:48 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Tough call, but as an independant, you "also" have to feel for the teacher - and other kids.

I mean - my child is at the same school. Class of 30. But "his" education is deprived because this kid with special needs not only hogs all the teacher's attention, but, can also flair up at any time because of what "normally" could be perceived as an insignificant incident.

At the end of the day, my kids education, and safety "may" suffer, and who cares about his rights?

Then on the way home on the bus, other issues are raised where your kin can be a danger to himself and others, and perhaps for the needs of the many (re "Star Trek II") out-weigh the needs of the few?

Don't get me wrong, I am only acting as devil's advocate, and I do have a sensitive, sympathetic nature, but I blame the schools system - not the kids - and certainly not your brother.

My own cousin has severe cerebal palsy (is that the correct term - I'm old enough to recall when he was a spastic), but he attended a recognised Special Needs school which individually addressed his specific learning difficulties - and he loved it. There was no stigmatisation attached, and other kids just viewed him as "normal".

I know that there may be philosphical arguments against this - In my opinion only (and I'm not an educational psychologist) and hey it's only a question - why is it that equal integration in "normal" schools isn't seen for what it is - a cheap and failing alternative for providing specialist care, attention, and facilities for those who really need this service?

I mean you can't expect a cheap off-the-peg suit to compare to an expensive made-to-measure individualised tailor-made suit, so why does education expect a "one-size-fits-all" mentality to work with children's wants and needs?

As I said, I do not wish to upset or offend anyone, but, I do think it is unfair for all concerned, for authorities (and yes even some Bolshi parents) to ignore such glaring differences, and to lump all kids together like some kind of sheep.


"Listen to them. Children of the night. What music they make."
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Posted: 13 Oct 05, 07:56 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

And after saying all that, I hope your brother receives all the proper care and attention which he duly deserves, and I agree that to be passed about from pillar to post is B.S.

Let's hope someone is willing to grasp the nettle and to do the proper thing for him (and thousand like him), and not forget about him - or leave him to his own devices in the middle of a classroom. As that too, is not righ.


"Listen to them. Children of the night. What music they make."
musikal eXistenZ user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 13 Oct 05, 09:04 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I have one thing to say.
the public school system is fucked.

that said, go bitch at the school til he gets what he needs!
and I hope the rest of your brother's stay at school will go a little more smoothly.

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Posted: 13 Oct 05, 09:14 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I know what it's like to have been abused by the school system, since I myself have Asperger's Syndrome, a lower but more high-functioning form of Autism.

I used to get teased a LOT by kids in Elementary and Junior High, because they never understood what Autism was, as I had thought myself to have had back then (I was only re-diagnosed in 2001, properly this time too), and because I liked a bunch of things they didn't, and that I acted and talked differently.

The teachers did shit about any of that crap, and I believe that is still happening today, at those schools I went to.

In fact, I got physically abused back at the school I went to in Quebec for 2 years back in the mid-1990's, and so I only have horrible memories about that school I went to. I never told my parents about what they did, and I now regret not having told them.

It was because of that that I couldn't trust teachers for a long time, or anyone in general when it came to peers in school.


It's also probably because of those memories that I feel worthless these days, and feel like committing suicide, and I am seriously not joking there...I seriously do feel these things, and I hate it.



And yes, FGT, that IS discrimination against your brother. You should report the school(s) and related people to the proper authorities, whatever they may be, whether it's the school board, school bus authorities, etc. etc.

I feel bad for your brother, 'cos I can actually RELATE with him.


I'm just only lucky in some ways that I can actually have more or less full control of myself, partly with help from the 2 meds I'm on (one of which is an anti-depressant), and that I can do things independantly, be aware of my surroundings, make decisions for myself.
But I also hate being totally aware of myself and my surroundings and everything else that comes with it, because I realize too what a shit world this is (even though I realize for one that the gov't in my province is great in providing a pension for those of us that can't hold jobs because of our disabilities, and I'm only lucky that I'm living in that province and no other in Canada), and it makes me very depressed in some ways.

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Posted: 13 Oct 05, 10:50 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

There is a lacking on the part of the school district your brother goes to if this is what is happening to him. There isn't enough time or space in this post to explain the appropriate way this situation should be dealt with. To try and make it short, your brother has a right to an education just as every other student does. Get a copy of your school district's Rights for their students. On top of this, your brother should have a more detailed set of rights with regard to his disability. I am not versed on Pennsylvannia's laws but in Kentucky, children with special needs, and there are varying degrees of special needs, ie. EBD (Early Behavior Disorders), learning disabilities, Austism, Down's, etc. In my school district we have special needs rooms in each school that has the need for one; if there are kids in that particular school that require this service, it is there. If the need is not there, then the room is not there. In Kentucky, a child that has been identified with a learning disability or a physical disability, etc., an IEP is developed. An IEP is an Individualized Education Plan. It is just what it states. No child learns the same or has the same barriers to learning so the plan for their education must be individualized. I've explained this bc this IEP dictates how much "regular" class time the child with a learning or physical disability receives. The children should be integrated in to the regular classroom as much as possible without impeding on the rights of the other children's education, or on their own! If the child with a special need is not benefiting from being in a regular classroom setting, they will be removed. All it boils down to is what is beneficial for the classroom as a whole and for the special needs child. It is not a difficult process as soon as what works is discovered. The process to find out what is beneficial for the classroom as a whole and for the special needs child can be trying as different methods are evaluated to see what is effective. It is a team effort on the part of the school AND THE PARENTS. It is essential that the parents are involved in the plan of action.

So there!! Lesson 101!


Wo ist das kamerahhhhhhhhhhh!!!



NJ!!!























John S Stuart user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 13 Oct 05, 11:04 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Lisser: Good mail.

PS - I was talking specifically about the failings of the UK system - I guess things are not that different in the US?


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Posted: 13 Oct 05, 11:49 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I know an autistic person who doesn't throw tantrums. He's fairly quiet, as most autistic people are.


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Posted: 13 Oct 05, 11:56 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Seems like that "NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND" program is really working.


[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Brandon wrote: [/QUOTENAME]... and now the "best you can offer is Mr. Jingles? HA! He's... just pathetic.[/QUOTE]
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Posted: 13 Oct 05, 13:05 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

John S Stuart wrote:

Lisser: Good mail.

PS - I was talking specifically about the failings of the UK system - I guess things are not that different in the US?


I can't speak for each individual state. I do know that the laws and regulations on the special education needs of school age children are federally regulated though...so FGT's brother ought to be protected under the same guidelines as the children in my school.

Yes, of course there are situations that are not ideal. There are breakdowns in the method. It happens when there are a lot of hands in the pot. So many people are involved in an IEP. the Guidance Counselor, Regular Ed Teacher, Special Ed Teacher, Speech Pathologists, School Psychologist, Behavior Specialists, Diagnosticians, sometimes Principals, or Asst. Principals, Social Workers (Me), Cabinet workers, Parents, etc. It just depends on the severity of the issue(s). I can't stress enough though how important it is for the parent(s) to be involved in the plan of action. If guidelines are set at school but are not followed through in the home, it is too confusing for the child and nothing is accomplished. It happens all too often here in my school where we have almost no parental involvement or support. It is such a shame.

Nothing is solved in a month, or even 3 months so I hate to say that our education system completely sucks, bc it doesn't. It just requires a lot of time, dedication, patience, and work. Things, some people aren't willing to put forth on a consistent basis. You can't ever give up on a child. That is what disturbs me the most about FGT's story. Why has this child been shuffled around so many times? Is there no where that is competent to handle his situation? Are his parents not demanding that someone assist them? Get him an advocate who will make sure that his rights are enforced. He should be in school, learning to his capacity, not being moved from here to there. I'm confident that he is not the only special needs child in that state, or probably even on his street!!! He needs someone to stop the merry-go-round and demand that he get the educational services he is entitled to. I'm not sure who that person is, but I'd say at this point, it needs to be his parent(s).


Wo ist das kamerahhhhhhhhhhh!!!



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Posted: 13 Oct 05, 13:27 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Mr.Jingles wrote:

Seems like that "NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND" program is really working.


This program is absolutely crap. The only facet of this program that I love is the pre-screening that is done on all incoming Kindergarteners. This is a great assessment tool for the teachers to see where these kids are coming in at. The date is starting to show that some children are starting school ALREADY BEHIND!!! It is astonishing but understandable since most of the mothers of these children, had little or no prenatal care. It's all related.

This program basically removes all accountability from the Federal Govt. on assisting with the education of our children. States can be fined if test scores aren't at the required levels. What good does this do when the Federal Govt. isn't funding the States adequately in the first place? Not to mention how poorly teachers are paid.

I can't stand this program to say the least but I LOVE the pre-K assessment.


Wo ist das kamerahhhhhhhhhhh!!!



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FreddiesGhettoTrench user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 13 Oct 05, 17:22 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Thanks for the advice, guys :)

My dad IS getting involved, which is why we took him out of the second school. The district just does not care, which is why the school he is in now is an Approved Private School (a private school that the district will pay for my bro to attend, and will supply transportation to). They had to agree to put him in an APS due to a settlement we had in a hearing (it got so ridiculous that we went through the legal system. Surprise surprise, as we did this CYS shows up at our door, just like the district threatened. However, that situation got resolved, luckily). After this latest stunt, we will probably be going thru the legal system yet again.

My brother is not intruding on anyone's education. He does not go to a mainstream school, he doesn't go to school with me. He goes to a school that has a program specifically for students with autism.

The thing is, legally, we have to send him to school. So what are we supposed to do? We have to send him, but the district fucks with his education.

And, yes, NCLB is indeed bullshit. Bush-supporter as I am, that was a stupid plan.




"Brian May, Freddie will."
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Posted: 14 Oct 05, 07:05 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

John S Stuart wrote:

Tough call, but as an independant, you "also" have to feel for the teacher - and other kids.


No, I don't have to feel for the teacher. It's their job to teach special ed kids. If they don't like it, they need to get another job.

I mean - my child is at the same school. Class of 30. But "his" education is deprived because this kid with special needs not only hogs all the teacher's attention, but, can also flair up at any time because of what "normally" could be perceived as an insignificant incident.


FYI, my brother's classes are of ALL students of special needs. He is not in a mainstream HS. I don't think he could ever be in a mainstream HS.

At the end of the day, my kids education, and safety "may" suffer, and who cares about his rights?


"May" doesn't mean B.S. My brother's education and rights ARE suffering.

Then on the way home on the bus, other issues are raised where your kin can be a danger to himself and others, and perhaps for the needs of the many (re "Star Trek II") out-weigh the needs of the few?


Hmm, then what do you propose we do? We legally have to send him to school. We don't have a car. I don't think there's any free TAXIS around. Bussing him is the school district's problem, and if they didn't want to bus him, they had no right to bring him to school and then pretty much hold him hostage there. Disability is a legally protected status. It is just as if a bus driver came to the school and went "all the little white children can get on my bus, but not the black kids." and then just left them there.

Don't get me wrong, I am only acting as devil's advocate, and I do have a sensitive, sympathetic nature, but I blame the schools system - not the kids - and certainly not your brother.


I understand where you're coming from, but imagine you had a child that could not talk or defend for himself, and you had no car, and you got a phone call from a school nearly two hours away in the middle of nowhere, saying that the bus has refused to pick him up. The school was considering calling an ambulance and having the ambulance transport my brother home...

My own cousin has severe cerebal palsy (is that the correct term - I'm old enough to recall when he was a spastic), but he attended a recognised Special Needs school which individually addressed his specific learning difficulties - and he loved it. There was no stigmatisation attached, and other kids just viewed him as "normal".


My brother also attends a recognized Special Needs school... And he would like it if the bus would actually pick him up FROM the school and bring him home!

I know that there may be philosphical arguments against this - In my opinion only (and I'm not an educational psychologist) and hey it's only a question - why is it that equal integration in "normal" schools isn't seen for what it is - a cheap and failing alternative for providing specialist care, attention, and facilities for those who really need this service?


Well, we've never sent my brother to a mainstream school, so we wouldn't know.




"Brian May, Freddie will."
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Posted: 14 Oct 05, 07:33 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

FreddiesGhettoTrench: Remember - I said that I was talking about UK schools - so that makes the picture a little different.

I am not disrespecting you or your brother, but, over here, such concerns as the ones I mentioned above - are very real indeed.

To start with "bussing" is NOT an issue. It is the responsibility of All parents - and All kids to make their OWN way to school. Even the poorest of poor have to walk to school if they can not afford car-rides or busfairs. In very special cases transport may be available at a subsidised cost for those in large rural areas, but in the main, in the UK, it is the PARENTS responsibility to bring their child to school.

If things are different in the US - you are lucky.

Over here, "Special needs" schools are few and far between. Because we adhere to a mis-guided "Social-inclusion" poilicy "special-needs" kids ARE included in mainstream schools, and mainstream classes. Often, very qualified classroom teachers, are expected to deal with special-needs children, but they have NO or very little Special-ed training - which benefits no-one.

Over here, it IS true that a child with special needs - can consume a teacher's time and resources at the DETRIMENT and DISRUPTION to the remainder of the class. That may seem fine for the needs of that individual child, but that cannot be fair on the other thirty chidren - can it? What about their needs to a "proper education"?

As I keep saying, if you have different programmes in the US - you are lucky, and I do believe that your brother deserves better, but I can assure you things are worse elsewhere, and particularly in the UK, where too many politicians, parents, social workers, and do-gooders have thier fingers in the pie.

Let's be honest here - "Social Inclusion" is education on the cheap. It simply is - "let's take all kids, (whatevere their specialist needs) and stick them in the same classroom, because all kids are equal and have equal rights. Philosphically speaking that may be correct, but in the real world, it just does not work, as the truth is we need to spend more money on special schools, and special education. (But that is just MY opinion).

I would just like to see a return to old fashioned common sense, where teachers are left alone to teach, and every child has the opportunity to fulfill their potential, without having to go through all this liberal red-tape (and "rights") in the classroom - because the so called "rights" of one - can often impinge on the "rights" of another - and that is not fair either.


"Listen to them. Children of the night. What music they make."
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Posted: 14 Oct 05, 14:52 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

We are indeed spoiled in America with regard to public education although many Americans take for granted what is made available, yet still complain it's not enough. We have bus service, we have Special Education teachers, Speech Pathologists, Social Workers, Nurses, School Based Health Centers where children can receive free immunizations, Occupational Therapists, Alternative schooling for those children that are behavior issues and can't function in a regular setting. We have Home-Bound schooling if a child has say, a seizure disorder and can't leave home to be schooled. We have whole disciplinary teams that will visit children in their homes to teach them and provide therapy where needed.

FGT, I don't know why your brother is sent two hours away each day for schooling. That is hardly beneficial to him. It would take me all day and night to type what I think should happen with your brother. Bottom line on his situation, he needs an advocate or a case manager to advise on his educational needs, manage his medical care, psycho-social care, and this is at the very least. Many times parents of special needs children take on this role, but it is understandable if this role is too stressful for a parent and this is where the advocate or case manager comes in to play. They are a support system to the family and the child, ad advisor.

Is he on any medications or is he in any therapy sessions to help him develop coping skills for his anger outbursts and behavioral problems? Who is in charge of making sure that he is receiving the appropriate services is the main question I have. Does he have a physician that is in charge of his medical care? What does this physician say? Does he have a therapist or social worker that is in charge of his pyscho-social well-being? What do they say? This all can't be blamed on the school district. The school district does have a responsibility to provide access to education for your brother but from your description of him, he's not capable of functioning well enough at this point to be in that environment. Why is this? There is some reason for this. Every Autistic child I know is in a school setting on some level. Infact, most can be integrated in to regular ed for most of the school day, and attend physical education classes as well. It's a wonderful thing.

Your brother seems to be needing a lot more than what the school can do for him on the whole. Right now there are issues with him that need to be addressed before he can benefit from being in any sort of school setting in my opinion. Right now, there are bigger fish to fry with him.


Wo ist das kamerahhhhhhhhhhh!!!



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Posted: 14 Oct 05, 16:08 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

<b><font color = "crimson">ThomasQuinn wrote:

Sarajane, for once in your life try to see things from someone else's point of view as well.

They can't adapt the whole school to him, you'd harm the others that way. If it's him or the rest that has to go, it's going to be him. If he's autistic, he'll need to go to a special school, such as the one my mum used to work at, where they can handle him, and are trained to do so.


He DOES GO TO A SPECIAL SCHOOL. I have said this about sixty times. He goes to a SCHOOL FOR AUTISTIC CHILDREN!


"Brian May, Freddie will."
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Posted: 14 Oct 05, 16:17 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Lisser wrote:

We are indeed spoiled in America with regard to public education although many Americans take for granted what is made available, yet still complain it's not enough.


It's not that it's not enough. It's that around here it's run by incompetents.

Many times parents of special needs children take on this role, but it is understandable if this role is too stressful for a parent and this is where the advocate or case manager comes in to play.


We don't need a case manager, my father is plenty advocate for ten people.

Is he on any medications


They (school district) were trying to force him on a medication that had far too many side effects, so we refused that one, but we have said we wouldn't be opposed to a mild anti-depressants.

or is he in any therapy sessions to help him develop coping skills for his anger outbursts and behavioral problems?


They may have these at his school, I don't know.

Who is in charge of making sure that he is receiving the appropriate services is the main question I have.


Us, i.e., his family. We lean on the school district, since we can't decide what school he goes to. The district is in charge of placing students, and without a school voucher program we're stuck in this district.

Does he have a physician that is in charge of his medical care? What does this physician say? Does he have a therapist or social worker that is in charge of his pyscho-social well-being? What do they say?


We bring him to a pediatrician. His problem is not a physical problem, and we don't need a social worker.

This all can't be blamed on the school district.


Oh yes it can.

The school district does have a responsibility to provide access to education for your brother but from your description of him, he's not capable of functioning well enough at this point to be in that environment.


Yes he is. He does not have tantrums every single day. He has them every once in awhile, if people piss him off.

Why is this? There is some reason for this. Every Autistic child I know is in a school setting on some level.


What do you mean "why is this?" Because the district keeps doing things to his education. My brother does fine in school as long as the district stops pulling stunts like they do.

Infact, most can be integrated in to regular ed for most of the school day, and attend physical education classes as well. It's a wonderful thing.


My brother does not talk, so putting him in a regular high school class would not be very useful, now would it?

Your brother seems to be needing a lot more than what the school can do for him on the whole. Right now there are issues with him that need to be addressed before he can benefit from being in any sort of school setting in my opinion. Right now, there are bigger fish to fry with him.


There is not "bigger fish to fry". He is currently in a school that is suited for his needs, as they told us the last three were. This one is a private school. The private school is dealing with him fine, it is that the district keeps pulling stunts.


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Posted: 14 Oct 05, 16:44 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

If I may put in my 2 cents and a few thoughts, since I myself am Aspergic...


Is he on any medications


They (school district) were trying to force him on a medication that had far too many side effects, so we refused that one, but we have said we wouldn't be opposed to a mild anti-depressants.


Anti-depressants work well, especially considering that many Autistic and Aspergic people can potentially suffer severe depression in their adult years.

I myself am on an anti-depressant called Citalophram (also known as Celexa), of which I am on a 20mg dose once daily.

Perhaps you should ask your brother's physician about trying him on that one. It works really well.

Alternatively there is another anti-depressant I know of called Paxil (I don't know its other name, but you can Google it)


Does your brother suffer from either ADD or ADHD (Attention Deficit Disorder / Attention Hyper Deficit Disorder) by the way?


or is he in any therapy sessions to help him develop coping skills for his anger outbursts and behavioral problems?


They may have these at his school, I don't know.


I think that's what the need of an aide (assistant) is partially for, so they can spend time with the Autistic individual to try and teach them, or help them adapt, to social norms, ie. behaving, not having fits, etc.

I'm only speaking on my personal experiences.

Most autistic individuals are different, so I wouldn't know how your brother would adapt to having an aide (though it certainly helps if the aide will do special things, like give him treats or backscratches for good work - I've always used to suck up for backscratches from all the female assistants I ever had)


Does he have a physician that is in charge of his medical care? What does this physician say? Does he have a therapist or social worker that is in charge of his pyscho-social well-being? What do they say?


We bring him to a pediatrician. His problem is not a physical problem, and we don't need a social worker.


It's true that it is not a physical condition (despite the fact that it affects the brain a lot), but I don't see eye-to-eye with you when you say that you don't need a social worker for him.

Now, I can't say I know what goes on in your household, but why would you say that you don't need a social worker for your brother? At least not one that takes him out to give you guys a break (aka. temporary relief), even if it's for 2-4 hours each week?



Infact, most can be integrated in to regular ed for most of the school day, and attend physical education classes as well. It's a wonderful thing.


My brother does not talk, so putting him in a regular high school class would not be very useful, now would it?


It doesn't matter if he talks or not. If he has an aide to help him do his work (as I have seen with another severely autistic boy I did volunteer work with about 2 years ago, named Thomas, and he doesn't talk either!), then at least he will have some sort of work to hand in that the school and/or the district can give him marks for and let him advance further until and including grade 12, even if he won't be able to do courses that would normally otherwise let people enter College or University with (eg. Mathematics 30 Applied / Pure, Science, etc.)

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Posted: 14 Oct 05, 18:25 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

FGT, many children and adults with autism are non-verbal. There are multiple children in our special needs class at my school that are not verbal (some have autism, some not) yet are integrated in to regular ed classrooms. Communication is not all verbal.

It is wonderful for them to be able to interact with the other children and it is also good for the other children to learn about children with special needs. There are no negatives to having him in a regular ed classroom as long as it's beneficial to him and is not taking away from the other children learning.

I would not be so quick to blame every road block on your brother's school district. Work with them, not against them.

It is wonderful that your father is taking on such a dedicated role in your brother's life but if I were him, I'd not be so quick to deny any assistance or support that I could get if I were in this situation. It's not easy.

Take care.


Wo ist das kamerahhhhhhhhhhh!!!



NJ!!!