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FreddiesGhettoTrench user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 02 Nov 05, 13:51 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Okay, what is this? Here in Philly, SEPTA (public transport) has gone on strike because they want to pay less for their healthcare. Where do these people get the right to disturb an entire city just to throw a tantrum? Can't the governor just step in and say, "You're all fired"?


"Brian May, Freddie will."
Yuri user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 02 Nov 05, 14:01 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

ah septa....
were having the same issue with faculty health care at my college... cept theyre not all walking out.
And I think the deal is that if they fired them all itd be a bigger hassle to hire a whole new set of workers.


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bohemian 11513 user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 02 Nov 05, 14:03 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Shoot them all... young or old!!! Go NRA... go Ghetto and fire/shoot your government!

... and kill them NOW... but don´t forget to buy a ticket that is valid to get there...:-)))




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Mr.Jingles user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 02 Nov 05, 14:13 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

BARNEY THE DINOSAUR EXPLAINS:

Kids, this is how a strike works:

A single worker could feel like his rights are being violated for motives of being under paid, lack of benefits, or put under extreme pressure by his employers. Then the employee could say: FUCK IT, I'VE HAD ENOUGH OF THIS SHIT!. Quit his job, and easily be replaced by someone else. Does resigning to one single position of company or corportation hurt the employers? Possibly not. What really hurts a company is when workers unite to go on strike, and claim for their rights all at once. The employer could perhaps say: YOU'RE ALL FUCKIN' FIRED!... but then, how is the employer going to find a work force of hundreds or thousands to fill out every single position right away? Employees and employers are then forced to work a deal so employers don't lose any more money for not having an active work force, and employees can have their jobs back while receiving the rights that motivated them to go on strike.

Don't forget kids! Brush your teeth 3 times a day, and eat fruit and veggies.


[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Brandon wrote: [/QUOTENAME]... and now the "best you can offer is Mr. Jingles? HA! He's... just pathetic.[/QUOTE]
FreddiesGhettoTrench user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 02 Nov 05, 15:24 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Mr.Jingles wrote:

BARNEY THE DINOSAUR EXPLAINS:

Does resigning to one single position of company or corportation hurt the employers? Possibly not. What really hurts a company is when workers unite to go on strike, and claim for their rights all at once.


It's also hurting innocent people that need to get to work and school, but obviously SEPTA doesn't care. Seriously, they get paid $10 an hour to do such CHALLENGING TASKS as giving people transfers!!! SO DIFFICULT!!! And they don't even do it well. The last time a SEPTA bus was actually on time...

The employer could perhaps say: YOU'RE ALL FUCKIN' FIRED!... but then, how is the employer going to find a work force of hundreds or thousands to fill out every single position right away?


Hey, I'll take one of those jobs. Stand in a booth and give people transfers for $10 an hour and benefits? That's nearly twice what I was making at my summer job, and I wouldn't have to touch anyone's gross food trays. Hire me now!

Employees and employers are then forced to work a deal so employers don't lose any more money for not having an active work force, and employees can have their jobs back while receiving the rights that motivated them to go on strike.


But the workers are just being selfish. They just want to barely have to pay anything for their healthcare. If they don't like it, they should quit. I seriously doubt, however, that many easier jobs are out there than the ones SEPTA provides.

However, now people who have to go to REAL jobs can't get there because no bus, trolley, or subway lines are running. The only thing running is the railroad. THANKS A WHOLE LOT, SEPTA. Some of my friends can't even get to college, and kids in Philly can't get to school. All so a bunch of jerks can sock it to their employers.



"Brian May, Freddie will."
Music Man user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 02 Nov 05, 15:28 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Mr.Jingles wrote:

BARNEY THE DINOSAUR EXPLAINS:

Kids, this is how a strike works:

A single worker could feel like his rights are being violated for motives of being under paid, lack of benefits, or put under extreme pressure by his employers. Then the employee could say: FUCK IT, I'VE HAD ENOUGH OF THIS SHIT!. Quit his job, and easily be replaced by someone else. Does resigning to one single position of company or corportation hurt the employers? Possibly not. What really hurts a company is when workers unite to go on strike, and claim for their rights all at once. The employer could perhaps say: YOU'RE ALL FUCKIN' FIRED!... but then, how is the employer going to find a work force of hundreds or thousands to fill out every single position right away? Employees and employers are then forced to work a deal so employers don't lose any more money for not having an active work force, and employees can have their jobs back while receiving the rights that motivated them to go on strike.

Don't forget kids! Brush your teeth 3 times a day, and eat fruit and veggies.


However, Mr. Jingles, you fail to realize that FGT does have a point. It would be different if it was an isolated situation, such as a case of factory workers going on strike. In this case, all that happens is the factory does not go back into action until there is some manner of agreement or compromise. This is doubtless the type of strike you are referring to.

However, there come certain professions as to where the benefits of compromise which result from a strike are severely outweighed by the consequences of the strike. A perfect example of this is the profession of teaching, by which going on strike is illegal and punishable under the law. One could imagine the severe disbenefit to our nation's youth if teachers were able to do so.

So, Mr. Jingles, the question at hand is not "What is a strike?" which you have obviously misconstrued it to be. The question is "Does this strike do such a disservice to the public good that it should be restricted?" Please feel free to answer that question, but preferably in a non-condescending manner. Thank you.


Creativity can always cover for a lack of knowledge.
Music Man user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 02 Nov 05, 15:37 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

FreddiesGhettoTrench wrote:


A)
Hey, I'll take one of those jobs. Stand in a booth and give people transfers for $10 an hour and benefits? That's nearly twice what I was making at my summer job, and I wouldn't have to touch anyone's gross food trays. Hire me now!

B)
But the workers are just being selfish. They just want to barely have to pay anything for their healthcare. If they don't like it, they should quit. I seriously doubt, however, that many easier jobs are out there than the ones SEPTA provides.


A) That doesn't solve the problem. Jingles is right, there is no way that SEPTA could fully restaff without existing SEPTA employees returning to their posts.

B) Perhaps they are. Then when negotiations come around it would be much more difficult for them to gain what they desire. And eventually, they may be forced to quit...that or return to their jobs. It will all settle in the end.

The main point, however, is made in my previous post.


Creativity can always cover for a lack of knowledge.
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Posted: 02 Nov 05, 17:57 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Septa employees have been working without a contract for a few years now. Every year, there are a few weeks of talks which end with a short term deal. Now the doodie has hit the fan and the employees have walked out.

Who's to blame? That depends on your bias.

Unions have been using their power for the past 130 years. The idea is to create a unified entity that weilds as much power as managment. When companies and industries are deadlocked like septa is now, the government is supposed to step in and act as a disinterested third party.

There are laws that outline the roles of managment, unions, and government involvment. Anyone can argue that any one of those groups has too much or too little power.

The role of unions is changing, in my opinion. The days of unions arguing for improved working conditions, and sustaining wages are over. These days, laws and regulations establish safe working conditions, and accountability keeps payment at a reasonable level.

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Posted: 02 Nov 05, 18:31 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Well, every moment they're on strike, people die and businesses lose money. So Rendell needs to lay down the law - they come back or they're fired.


"Brian May, Freddie will."
Lester Burnham user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 02 Nov 05, 18:48 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

People die? That's a bit melodramatic and absurd. You have to realize that it's affecting the workers as much, because they're not getting paid to go on strike. It's the unions that want the cheaper healthcare, not exactly the individuals.

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Posted: 02 Nov 05, 19:16 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Lester Burnham wrote:

It's the unions that want the cheaper healthcare, not exactly the individuals.


Are you suggesting that the union might get sick and need to go to the doctor? The union is supposed to act in the interest of the individuals.

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Posted: 02 Nov 05, 19:39 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

FreddiesGhettoTrench wrote:

Well, every moment they're on strike, people die and businesses lose money.


See guys, I told you she was an extremist.


[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Brandon wrote: [/QUOTENAME]... and now the "best you can offer is Mr. Jingles? HA! He's... just pathetic.[/QUOTE]
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Posted: 02 Nov 05, 19:57 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Obviously Sarajane only sees one side of the story.

Employees who are part of the union are claiming for their right to receive better health care benefits because they don't get enough coverage to afford expensive medicines and medical services. It doesn't surprise me because the health care system in this country is an absolute disaster compared to the health care from other developed nations. It's absurd that people who have to support families while making less than $25.000 a year can't even be given the right to receive complete medical coverage.

I don't know how the whole deal works, but obviously a stall on the whole transportation system of a major city affects everyone. Sadly the workers are in a position where a whole city moves day by day depending on them, but then should we just tell the SEPTA workers to stop fuckin' whinning and deal with having no money to afford medicine? These people are not asking for a promotion, or a raise so they can buy a new plasma TV screen. When they get sick or need medical assistance of any kind, they have the exact same needs than any one of us.


[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Brandon wrote: [/QUOTENAME]... and now the "best you can offer is Mr. Jingles? HA! He's... just pathetic.[/QUOTE]
Music Man user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 02 Nov 05, 20:16 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Mr.Jingles wrote:

FreddiesGhettoTrench wrote:

Well, every moment they're on strike, people die and businesses lose money.


See guys, I told you she was an extremist.


I admit what she said was really stupid, but that doesn't make her an extremist.


Creativity can always cover for a lack of knowledge.
Mr.Jingles user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 02 Nov 05, 20:22 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

When you make up wrong facts and start saying all sorts of lies to support your arguments that makes you an extremist. It's not the first time Sarajane has done it, and people are certainly not going to die because SEPTA goes on strike.

It's not as if all paramedics, nurses, and physicians in Philly go on strike.


[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Brandon wrote: [/QUOTENAME]... and now the "best you can offer is Mr. Jingles? HA! He's... just pathetic.[/QUOTE]
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Posted: 02 Nov 05, 20:45 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Mr.Jingles wrote:

When you make up wrong facts and start saying all sorts of lies to support your arguments that makes you an extremist.


No, that makes you uninformed, or ignorant. Extremism is completely different.

Judging from the conditions you have stated, I could confidently say you are an extremist.


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Panchgani user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 02 Nov 05, 22:41 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Where I work, I pay for 25 % of my employers costs for medical insurance, which I believe is fairly typical for private industry. However, cushy government workers do not want to pay their fair share of medical insurance. The cushy government workers would rather blackmail the taxpayers in order to squeeze for a panic deal to pay virtually nothing on medical insurance, a deal that they are not reasonably entitled to.

Amazing how all right wingers are extremist, but all left wingers are rational and moderate.


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Posted: 02 Nov 05, 23:24 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Rip Van Winkle wrote:


Amazing how all right wingers are extremist, but all left wingers are rational and moderate.


*sigh* The sinister will always view the dexter as extreme, and vice versa. It's just how bias works. The difference is just that the sinister is much more vocal in its views. I mean, how often is a protest instigated to keep things as they stand?


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Posted: 03 Nov 05, 04:16 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Music Man wrote:



A perfect example of this is the profession of teaching, by which going on strike is illegal and punishable under the law.



Not over here it's not! Here in Britain, everyone (except the police - downer for them!) has a right to strike, which is only fair. If there is a problem, either with pay or conditions, which employers refuse to acknowledge, sometimes it's the only way to get them to sit up and pay attention. One major advantage over here is of course the fact that we have free and fair healthcare for everyone in the country, not just for those who can pay for it.
Everyone has the right to health, and sometimes I wonder if the american healthcare system can see that behind the $$$$


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Posted: 03 Nov 05, 07:10 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Mr.Jingles wrote:

When you make up wrong facts and start saying all sorts of lies to support your arguments that makes you an extremist. It's not the first time Sarajane has done it, and people are certainly not going to die because SEPTA goes on strike.

It's not as if all paramedics, nurses, and physicians in Philly go on strike.


Yes, people WILL die because SEPTA goes on strike. More traffic means more traffic accidents, which means more traffic fatalities, which also means ambulances get to hospitals later.


"Brian May, Freddie will."