Forums > Queen - Serious Discussion > Live Album editing

forum rss feed
Author

Cwazy little thing user not visiting Queenzone.com

Bohemian: 483 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 12 Nov 05, 19:48 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

A few times now Ive seen discussions on here about which bits of official live releases were edited, or rerecorded later to improve mistakes or equipment error.
Personally I strongly dislike the idea of someone taking a "live" album, and adding non live elements into it, thereby taking away from the reason I go to gigs, and then buy live albums - to hear how a band actually sound as a band - four musicians (four human beings capable of mistakes) producing music in the purest of ways. Like many people I consider a bands ability to be able to perform live essential, and if I buy I touched up album I might as well be listening to a studio production - its not the same as warts and all - thats how good bands are distinguished from crap ones....
but ranting aside; although I know they didnt do it often, particularly compared to other bands, Ive begun to wonder how much of Queens live stuff was touched up?
I know many of the folks on here, particularly those with a larger bootleg collection than me, have far greater knowledge than I on these matters, so I was wondering if anyone could give me an idea of what, if anything, was altered on official releases of the following;

Live At Wembley '86
Live in Budapest
The other bits of Live Magic
Rock in Rio
Live at the Bowl (apart from the now famous "Locality" fix)
The FM Tribute
Brian May Band at the Brixton Academy

Ive avoided including Live Killers cos it seems thats one large edit from what Ive heard, so we'll exclude that biggie from this convo.
I guess really Id just like to know whats "real" when I listen, and whats later added - I think its a shame these things are edited at all, and Im sure a lot of people would like a fairly comprehensive idea of any changes made to the above.
Many thanks if you have anything to enlighten me.


Adventure Seeker on an empty street...

www.myspace.com/ampfirerock
The Real Wizard user not visiting Queenzone.com
The Real Wizard
Deity: 18636 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 12 Nov 05, 21:43 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Cwazy little thing wrote:

Live At Wembley '86


Tonnes of overdubbing on Freddie's voice... particularly in One Vision, A Kind Of Magic, and We Are The Champions.

Live in Budapest


The vocals were tampered with in a few places, most notably during Under Pressure (Roger's "ahhh" behind "people on streets" in the second verse), and the harmonies in Radio Ga Ga. Just too good to be true.

The other bits of Live Magic


The level of Roger's vocals in TYMD were definitely played around with.

The FM Tribute


Brian's solo in Somebody To Love was apparently patched up for the vhs/dvd releases, but not for GH3, strangely enough.

Ive avoided including Live Killers cos it seems thats one large edit from what Ive heard, so we'll exclude that biggie from this convo.


Check out my geocities link below, if you already haven't, as I've analyzed Live Killers inside and out. It's indeed dripping with overdubs and edits.



"The more generous you are with your music, the more it comes back to you." -- Dan Lampinski



http://www.queenlive.ca
Negative Creep user not visiting Queenzone.com

Bohemian: 720 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 13 Nov 05, 07:52 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

"The other bits of Live Magic

The level of Roger's vocals in TYMD were definitely played around with."

Yeah, how DARE they mix the recordings (?!!), would you prefer it if they just released a crap stereo mix straight from the desk with no post production?

Live Killers DRIPPING with overdubs? It sourced from numerous gigs, yes - theyve NEVER made out it was from one gig, its from their European tour, but it's quite obviously not heavily overdubbed, if it all. I read your little piece on it, and its hardly convincing and its 90% based on your imagination.


Bobby_brown user not visiting Queenzone.com

Deity: 2300 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 13 Nov 05, 10:15 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Negative Creep wrote:

"

but it's quite obviously not heavily overdubbed, if it all.


You`re a funny guy!!!

Take care

Cwazy little thing user not visiting Queenzone.com

Bohemian: 483 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 13 Nov 05, 12:50 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The sniping at each other aside (lol), thanks for this - its getting more interesting - I really couldnt tell with Wembley, and Id never noticed a difference between STL on GH3 and the tribute dvd - I must pay more attention.

Does anyone know how much was changed on Brians Brixton academy gig?


Adventure Seeker on an empty street...

www.myspace.com/ampfirerock
inu-liger user not visiting Queenzone.com
inu-liger
Deity: 13057 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 13 Nov 05, 13:19 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

You forgot two more albums:

On Fire: Live At The Bowl (fix on FBG)
Return Of The Champions

JDL2nd user not visiting Queenzone.com

Bohemian: 292 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 13 Nov 05, 15:56 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I always think the vocal solo (it sounds like a tuba or trompet) in Dreamers Ball is edited. It sounds to good and during the solo you hear the voices of Brian ,Roger and Freddie. It's impossible that John did this so this one must be edited. I think it's Brian's voice by the way.

A Word In Your Ear user is on Queenzone.com

Royalty: 1786 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 14 Nov 05, 05:12 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Cwazy little thing wrote:

The sniping at each other aside (lol), thanks for this - its getting more interesting - I really couldnt tell with Wembley, and Id never noticed a difference between STL on GH3 and the tribute dvd - I must pay more attention.

Does anyone know how much was changed on Brians Brixton academy gig?


"Love Token" obviously, But what else?


Joyful the sound
Benn user not visiting Queenzone.com

Royalty: 1332 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 14 Nov 05, 06:03 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

> But what else.....?

Well, pretty much everything other than Since You've Been Gone. Just get hold of the bootleg and compare it to the official release - many of the solos are overdubbed.

I was at the show (front and stage right) and Brian was having all sorts of problems with his guitars - the number of times he changed was amazing for someone that's supposed to play such a legendary instrument (the Red Special was probably only on stage once all night). Hammer To Fall and We Will Rock You spring to mind as having the most overdubs with Love Token and Resurrection being the most noticeable.


Benn
icmrocha (The Man From Planet Marzipan) user not visiting Queenzone.com

Bohemian: 346 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 14 Nov 05, 10:53 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Negative Creep wrote: [/QUOTENAME
Live Killers DRIPPING with overdubs? It sourced from numerous gigs, yes - theyve NEVER made out it was from one gig, its from their European tour, but it's quite obviously not heavily overdubbed, if it all. I read your little piece on it, and its hardly convincing and its 90% based on your imagination.



Well, there are many things you can spot by listening to a bootleg, such as the big CLAP on "Bicycle race" just before "you say black, I say white" and in "Dreamer's ball" with the kazoo thing...


"The years have been unkind...

but kind enough!"
The Real Wizard user not visiting Queenzone.com
The Real Wizard
Deity: 18636 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 14 Nov 05, 17:36 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Negative Creep wrote:

Live Killers DRIPPING with overdubs? It sourced from numerous gigs, yes - theyve NEVER made out it was from one gig, its from their European tour, but it's quite obviously not heavily overdubbed, if it all. I read your little piece on it, and its hardly convincing and its 90% based on your imagination.


Before resorting to insults, perhaps you could listen to the existing bootlegs from the Live Killers tour, spend years acquiring the musical skills to dissect the recordings from a musical perspective, and do an analysis yourself. Until then, mine is the only available work committed to dissecting Live Killers as such. Surely Greg Brooks' work doesn't qualify, if you'd even like to call that work. His "work" consisted of transcribing stage banter from soundboard recordings, when he had the ability to do far, far more. Words cannot express how disgusted and disappointed I am by this.

My analysis has many question marks, and I make them perfectly clear. It's impossible for me to know everything right now, because I don't have recordings of all the concerts. I fully acknowledge that I most likely will never have all the answers. All I can do is answer what I can, and leave the remaining questions to be answered in the future, perhaps by someone other than myself. I would fully welcome work from yourself, or anyone else who will present some well-informed research on this matter. I have received many compliments, as well as criticism. But the only criticism I've received is from people who have not actually bothered to prove me wrong. They are just full of words and nothing more. You are another one to add to that small list. Why don't the bunch of you team up to prove me wrong, if you're so interested in publically denouncing my work?

At the moment, I'm fully convinced that there are dozens of other places on the album where, part-way through songs, it switches from one concert to another. I am also convinced that parts of Don't Stop Me Now and We Are The Champions were overdubbed with something other than live takes. Find me one recording from this tour where Freddie's voice was in good enough shape to nail those songs as he did on Live Killers, and then I will change my position. Likewise, find me the bootleg recordings of Get Down Make Love and Brighton Rock exactly as they appear on Live Killers, and I'll stand corrected. Until then, the Frankfurt bootleg is accountable for about 10% of these songs. There are only slight parts where they match perfectly.

I don't think Dreamer's Ball was tampered with, by the way. Brian and Roger played their kazoos every night, and it can even be seen on the Paris '79 video.


"The more generous you are with your music, the more it comes back to you." -- Dan Lampinski



http://www.queenlive.ca