Forums > Sharing The Music - Announce > Anybody interested in "Marionette", the inspirating song of Bohemian rhaps?

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violonbleu user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 07 Jan 06, 14:46 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Hello everybody! I don't know if it is considered as an official material so I don't upload it, but you may contact me or purchase it if you are interested in it: the song "Marionette" fromm Mott The Hoople, wrote by Ian Hunter and this is the song which inspirated Freddie to compose Bohemian Rhapsody...I think this is a an enjoyable curiosity...
my e-mail is: crazylau2004@yahoo.fr
ps: sorry for my belgian accent
pss: I hope that i am in the right forum...
Tell me if you know the song and what do you think of it! thanks :-)
Laurent


Violonbleu
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Posted: 08 Jan 06, 03:59 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I've... never heard it.
Where did you hear it inspired him?


"Your not funny, your not a good musician, theres a difference between being funny and being an idiot, you obviously being the latter" - Dave R Fuller
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Posted: 08 Jan 06, 06:05 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Zebonka12, I think the song can be found on an album of Mott the Hoople called The Hoople:

"Marionette" was a frantic operetta and a production masterpiece. It's about the business side of rock and the manner it could affect musicians manipulated by management. The song was a nightmarish mini opera of five minutes duration, a concept that would shortly be used by Queen for their multi-million-selling single "Bohemian Rhapsody". Ian Hunter said of his freshly penned ditty at the time "It's something I've always wanted to do as a songwriter, and that is to do a five minute opera, a hook all the time. I think we got it with Marionette. With this song one thing hits you, then another thing hits you straight away. You never get time to be distracted".
(source: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00000252N/104-0744122-9795946?v=glance&n=5174)

As I read it it was not an inspiration but the same concept.

[ Wybren™ ] user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 08 Jan 06, 06:39 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I think you cannot share it here since it's official material. You can easily find/buy it!


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violonbleu user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 08 Jan 06, 17:31 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

i've read it on the Ian Hunter Website biography:
it is on the paragraph 4

1)Ian Hunter - Biography
Ian Hunter's musical pedigree should require no explanation, but, for the uninitiated, the primer is as follows.


2)Born in Oswestry, Shropshire and fuelled musically by the likes of Little Richard and Jerry Lee Lewis, Ian Hunter Patterson played in various bands throughout the sixties, including The New Yardbirds and, as a bass player, backed Billy Fury,Freddie Fingers Lee, The Young Idea and David McWilliams. He also worked as a journalist and staff songwriter for Francis Day and Hunter before joining Herefordshire band, Silence, in 1969.


3)Renamed Mott The Hoople by manic mentor and producer Guy Stevens, Hunter became the group's vocalist, principal songwriter and focal point with visually striking corkscrew hair and omnipresent dark glasses. Mott recorded four crazed but critically-acclaimed and highly influential albums for Island Records and possessed enormous live prowess, but poor record sales led to a temporary split and a move to CBS/Columbia. With David Bowie's 'All The Young Dudes' as the launchpad, Mott The Hoople hit superstar status between 1972 and 1974 - seven hit singles, four chart albums (including 'Mott' - still regarded as a seventies' classic); they were the first rock band to sell out a week of Broadway concerts in New York's theatreland, and Ian wrote his universally acclaimed book,Diary of a Rock 'n' Roll Star.


4)Hunter's lyrical foresight and percipience were astonishing - 'The Moon Upstairs' (1971) pre-empted Punk Rock by five years, 'Crash Street Kidds' (1974) predicted social unrest and British street riots in the early '80s and Queen must have been listening to Ian's five minute operetta, 'Marionette', an obvious precursor to their #1 smash hit, 'Bohemian Rhapsody'.

Various personnel changes in Mott The Hoople ended with the recruitment of the highly talented Mick Ronson as lead guitarist, but personality clashes and strains within the group resulted in its demise after Hunter suffered a physical breakdown in the USA. In spite of the considerable pleadings of their original guiding light, Guy Stevens, Ian traded the safety of Mott the Hoople for unknown and risk-laden solo territory.

On paper, the combined potential of Mott and Ronson was frightening and Ian's first stunning solo album, recorded with Mick, illustrated the considerable opportunity that was missed. Hunter was soon trailblazing again and his second LP, released fifteen months later, whilst labeled commercial suicide, was soon mirrored by Sting after he quit The Police and issued his first solo records in a style reminiscent of 'All American Alien Boy.'

Hunter continued to pool his vocal and writing expertise with Ronson's instrumental and studio capabilities over the next fifteen years, both for recording and production work. The latter included Generation X, Ellen Foley, Hanoi Rocks and Urgent. By the mid '80s however, Ian's output was less frequent, being restricted to occasional songs for movie soundtracks, until he resumed his partnership with Mick in 1988, when they recorded and toured for the first and only time as 'Hunter Ronson'.

Ian has been cited as a major inspiration and reference point for numerous bands including the Clash, Kiss, Def Leppard, REM, Motley Crue, Blur and Oasis. Hunter's influence has remained incalculable; accompanied on stage by Ian Astbury of The Cult, Axl Rose and Slash, Roger Daltrey, Meat Loaf and Bryan Adams amongst others (and at their request), there are now over 50 different cover versions of Ian's songs from artists as diverse as Great White, The Presidents of the United States of America, Status Quo, Blue Oyster Cult, Bonnie Tyler, Barry Manilow, The Pointer Sisters, Willie Nelson, Thunder and The Monkees - further evidence, surely, that he is one of our greatest-ever songwriters.

Freddie Mercury of Queen enquired of a former Mott member in the '80s why Hun


Violonbleu
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Posted: 10 Jan 06, 12:03 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

'Marionette' is one of my favourite songs ever - still play it regularly today. It is on 'The Hoople' album and also on a couple of compilations - I would recommend it to anyone who likes a great rock song - the sound of a nervous breakdown in five minutes.

My brother was a fan of Mott The Hoople and saw Queen support them in Leeds in the early days which led to him (and me) becoming fans of Queen.

Ian Hunter still tours and is worth seeing any chance you get - he's due back in the UK for a tour in the autumn all being well - I saw about 4 of his gigs last year and all were excellent.

He released a live dvd last year called 'Just Another Night' that featured a guest appearance by Brian May for the last song, the original of 'All The Way From Memphis' that Brian has covered. Joe Elliot from Def Leppard usually pops up for the UK gigs as well as he is a massive Mott / Hunter fan.

violonbleu user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 10 Jan 06, 12:26 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Hey! I'm also a fan of Ian Hunter! So thanks for these informations!But do you know if he's going to tour one day in Belgium? Or how can I contact him to ask him? I saw recently that he has been in Belgium last year but it was too late :-) and do you think he's preparing a new solo album today? And sorry for all these questions :-) but could you tell me if you find that his live album "Strings attached" is so great as "The truth, the Hole truth and nothing but the truth" live album?


Violonbleu
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Posted: 11 Jan 06, 13:45 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

He is currently writing/recording a new solo album which should be released later this year - this will be supported by a tour later this year - I have no idea if he has plans to play in Belgium but if a promoter is willing to pay him, I'm sure he will. He usually does a mainland European tour before the UK tour.

The tour dates will appear on his website (www.ianhunter.com) and there is a section on the website called 'Horse's Mouth' where you can e-mail Ian and he might reply in one of his regular response columns ... though he goes where his manager (his wife) plans for him so he might not have any idea where he is playing until he gets there.

I only have the dvd versions of 'Strings Attached' and 'The Truth ....' (dvd is called 'Just Another Night' - the same gig) and think they are two totally different things - 'Strings Attached' is a group of songs reworked for the band & orchestra, something totally different for him and I like it - however, I prefer 'Just Another Night' because it rocks a lot more and that is the Ian Hunter I prefer (and I was at the gig it was recorded at after getting a hint that Brian May would be there)


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Posted: 12 Jan 06, 07:04 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I never heard any of the Queen guys talk about this song, or say it influenced them or freddie in writing Borhap.

It's very easy to claim your song influenced someone to write the song which was voted best song of the century


"On the first day Pim & Niek created a heavenly occupation. Pim & Niek blessed it and named it 'Loosch'."



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bobo the chimp user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 12 Jan 06, 08:26 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

"I never heard any of the Queen guys talk about this song, or say it influenced them or freddie in writing Borhap."

Can't say I heard that either, but usually artists are a little careful when mentioning influences because as soon as they say 'this song inspired me' they get hounded for being rip-off artists.


"Your not funny, your not a good musician, theres a difference between being funny and being an idiot, you obviously being the latter" - Dave R Fuller
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Posted: 12 Jan 06, 09:09 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

"It's very easy to claim your song influenced someone to write the song which was voted best song of the century"

...and when author of the song is on Heaven...

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Posted: 12 Jan 06, 13:33 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

They said a hundred of times they were inspired by Beatles, Jimi Hendrix and most of all, Led Zeppelin


"On the first day Pim & Niek created a heavenly occupation. Pim & Niek blessed it and named it 'Loosch'."



(Genesis 1:1)
violonbleu user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 12 Jan 06, 15:54 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Thank you very much Tiswas for the informations!!!I will explore the "horse's mouth"!!I didn't know he was recording and I'm very glad of that.
Yes, maybe I'm wrong with marionette, the fact that you've never heard it before says it all. Sorry if it is a wrong information!



Violonbleu
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Posted: 12 Jan 06, 18:54 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Marionette was released in 1974 - Bo Rhap was released in 1975 - Queen supported Mott in 1974 when Marionette was being performed.

Now I would not say there is any direct connection between the two songs and both are as original as any song can be but it wouldn't surprise me if Freddie was influenced by the Mott song - without he he may not have pushed it as far as he did.

I love both bands so there is no favouritism from me - both great songs

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Posted: 12 Jan 06, 18:56 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

FriedChicken<br><font size=1>The Almighty</font> wrote:

They said a hundred of times they were inspired by Beatles, Jimi Hendrix and most of all, Led Zeppelin

And The Who ... and 'Down in the city just Hoople & me' might relate to a band they toured with ;-)

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Posted: 13 Jan 06, 16:13 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The intro of the operette bit of A Day in the Life is also a lot like Borhap...


Anyway, thanks for the tip, it's a great song


"On the first day Pim & Niek created a heavenly occupation. Pim & Niek blessed it and named it 'Loosch'."



(Genesis 1:1)
bobo the chimp user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 14 Jan 06, 02:44 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

It's immaterial. Freddie was listening to a lot of the Cabaret soundtrack at the time he wrote Bohemian Rhapsody.


"Your not funny, your not a good musician, theres a difference between being funny and being an idiot, you obviously being the latter" - Dave R Fuller
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Posted: 15 Jan 06, 15:12 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

It seems a very different song to me.
Much more similar, in my opinion, is a song by an italian "love songs" band called "cugini di campagna" (country cousins). The track was called "innamorata" and it reached n.3 in 1974 (!) italian charts. The band got a "Sweet" look and the vocalist sing like barry gibb.
Anyway, when I was listened on the radio Bo Rhap for the first time (maybe in 1976), I was hit especially by the verse "If I'm not back again this time tomorrow..".
Listen this clip and tell me what do you think.

Attachment: Innamorata_clip.mp3 1 MB
This has been downloaded 29 time(s).


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Posted: 16 Jan 06, 12:08 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Nicely spotted. That one bit of melody is pretty much the same, though it's interesting - in the Italian song, it seems to be the main thing that's repeated in the chorus, whereas in Bohemian Rhapsody it's merely one part of it.

Interesting listening, thanks!

Though... I'm not sure if Queen would've heard this, if it were merely an Italian hit.


"Your not funny, your not a good musician, theres a difference between being funny and being an idiot, you obviously being the latter" - Dave R Fuller