Forums > Queen - Serious Discussion > Teachers: Foolin' Around - Questions

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John S Stuart user not visiting Queenzone.com
John S Stuart
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Posted: 31 Jan 06, 11:14 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Living in the UK I failed to notice that the Freddie Mercury solo track 'Foolin' Around' was 'available' in the USA months BEFORE the 'Mr Bad Guy' LP was released.

According to IMBD, the film 'Teachers' Directed by Arthur Hiller was officially released in 1984, but the 'Mr Bad Guy' LP was not released in the UK until 29th April 1985.

As we in the UK usually recieve most movies a few months after the initial USA screenings, I had always assumed that 'Teachers' was also released in 1985 AFTER the 'Mr Bad Guy' release, but I guess I was wrong.

This leads to two questions:

1 - Can it be confirmed that 'Teachers' was indeed released in the USA in 1984, which means it was 'available' pre 'Mr Bad Guy'?

2 - If confirmed 'Teachers' was released in 1984 - does this mean that the 1984 version is the 'orginal' and not the 1985 'Mr Bad Guy' version - and does this explain why the earlier 'Teachers' version is different from the 1985 release?

Foolin' Around
1984 Teachers OST Version 3:39
1985 UK LP/ CD 3:30 - CBS CDCBS 86312
1985 Original 12” Remix 5:36 - Solo Collection: 527 9640
1985 Instrumental 3:37 - Solo Collection: 527 9640
1985 Early Version 4:12 - Solo Collection: 527 9640
1993 Steve Brown 3:35 Remix - Parlophone CDPCSD 124



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Boy Thomas Raker user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 31 Jan 06, 11:24 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

To the best of my knowledge, John, 'Teachers' was indeed released in the USA in 1984, pre 'Mr Bad Guy'. I had a copy on vinyl, long gone, but recall .38 Special had the main single called 'Teacher, Teacher.' I bought Mr. Bad Guy in the summer of '85.

Can't answer question 2 for you, sorry!


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Posted: 31 Jan 06, 11:27 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

1) Yes. http://imdb.com/title/tt0088242/

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Posted: 31 Jan 06, 13:02 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The OST album was indeed released in 1984, prior to MR BAD GUY. The version contained in the OST is indeed diferent an also earlier, so I guess it could be referred as the original version of the song. BTW, I believe that all of this has been discussed here before.

And there is more: The extended version from the FM SOLO COLLECTION is more similar to this original version than to the regular album version, so my guess is that the planned but unreleased 12" single was meant to be cut from the OST album instead of MBG.

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Posted: 31 Jan 06, 13:11 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Damn, wrong link, sorry, John :( I found a lot of reviews about this movie and posted the only one... The wrong one... I'm getting older.

http://movies.go.com/filmography/credits?movie_id=22898&name=teachers_1984&genre=comedy&studio=TBA
http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1800125519/info
http://movies.msn.com/movies/movie.aspx?m=489794

Anyway: "Released in US October 5, 1984"



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Posted: 31 Jan 06, 13:14 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

It seems that is indeed from 1984.

Here`s the OST, with tracklisting:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4823983318&category=618#ebayphotohosting

It was released October 5, 1984 in the US. Here´s the statistics about the film.

http://www.the-numbers.com/people/NNOLT.html



I never heard the OST version, but if it`s different, then i think you can call it the original, one because it was released first (it was a completed track- not a demo).

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Posted: 31 Jan 06, 17:07 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I never have heard the 'Teachers' version of this track.
Can somebody tell what the difference is between the two?

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Posted: 01 Feb 06, 02:58 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

As I know, the only difference between two versions is the ending of the song. In the "Teachers" version you can find extra bits with some additional vocal adlibs in the end of the song which were edited out (about 10 seconds) on "Mr Bad Guy" version. Extended version of "Foolin' Around" has complete ending. So you can compare it with album version and find the difference.

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Posted: 01 Feb 06, 10:24 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The mix is also different from (albeit close to) the MR. BAD GUY version.

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Posted: 01 Feb 06, 16:33 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I did an A/B test, could only hear a little more general loudness. I then put both into Goldwave and the wave form was virtually identical. I'd be prepared to agree that the Teachers version was mastered by someone else, but I think a remix (however subtle) is stretching the point.

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Posted: 01 Feb 06, 16:57 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Yes, to answer your question John, the "Teachers" OST came out in October of 1984. The version of "Mr. Bad Guy" which appears on this soundtrack is slightly different, though you have to listen very carefully. It's not so much that the mix is different, but that the later Album version is editted. The "Teachers" version has a few extra bars at the end (not at the *very* end, mind you, but well before the fade out). This has caused most of the confusion about *how* the two versions differ, as they appear to fade out at the same point. What was removed from the "Teachers" version for the album is hard to spot, so I'll describe it as best I can:

I note the better-known album version first, as a common frame of reference, followed by the original soundtrack version. The differences, noted in the "Teachers" description, are in CAPS so they're easier to make out while reading and following along (for those of you with the "Teachers" version).

Album Version
After the last verse (approx 2:54):
"...just keep fooling around with me...yeeah...(jangly guitar)...I'm a fool, fool, fool, fool for ya, baby, keep foolin' around...(jangly guitar)...yeah-yeah (jangly guitar)...I'm a fool, fool, fool for ya, sexy baby, keep foolin' around (jangly guitar...start to fade)...I'm a fool, fool, fool, fool for ya, baby, keep foolin' around (into a full fade out by this point, 3:27)"

Teachers Version
After the last verse (approx 2:54)
"...just keep fooling around with me...yeeah...(NO JANGLY GUITAR)...I'm a fool, fool, fool, fool for ya, baby, keep foolin' around...(NO JANGLY GUITAR)...yeah-yeah (jangly guitar)...I'm a fool, fool, fool for ya, sexy baby, keep foolin' around... (jangly guitar) I'M A FOOL, FOOL, FOOL (GUITAR TWANG!)BABY... HANGIN' AROUND (jangly guitar...start to fade)...I'm a fool, fool, fool, fool for ya, baby, keep foolin' around (into a full fade out by this point, 3:39)

Basically, the jangly guitar (I didn't know what else to call it) was mixed INTO to album version in places and a few bars of Freddie singing were taken straight out (and it's done seamlessly).

Now, to really make your head hurt, the Instrumental on the Solo Collection Boxed Set features the "Teachers" version (without vocals), rather than the album version.

My only question now is *why bother* with two versions anyway, when the differences are so small? (Rhetorical question, no need to answer...I know Queen did this sort of thing a lot!)

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Posted: 01 Feb 06, 17:18 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

rhyeking: Excellent answer.

For those who think this forum has turned to sh*t, I have said it before, and I will say it again, this is the sort of thing only Queenzone does best.

I know the differences are subtle, but living in the UK, 'Teachers' was released over here POST 'Mr Bad Guy', so I always lived by that assumption.

To discover 'Teachers' was actually released elsewhere (USA) PRE 'Mr Bad Guy' was a bit of a revelation.

It does not make much difference really, except now when I play them in real chronological order, I can see the evolution of the track in a much clearer light.

All I can say is thanks!


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Posted: 01 Feb 06, 17:45 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Why, thank you, John. I'm happy to help.

A few other tidbits about "Teachers"...

Some of the songs on the soundtrack were released as singles to promote the movie/album and featured sleeve artwork from the film (much like the "Highlander"-related singles did).

Since the discovery of the "Foolin' Around (Original 12" Mix)" which was unreleased, it's obvious that it was planned for release as a single too (which is discussed in the Boxed Set book).

In case anyone is wondering where in the film the song appears, it's played over an establishing shot of the school, at the beginning of a wintery school day, with the students walking in from the outside. It's quite effective and you get to hear a good portion of the song. For those of you with the soundtrack LP, the back cover photo is from that shot!

I wish they'd release that soundtrack on CD, just so I can have that version in a digital form. I lifted it from my vinyl, and it sounds great, but remastered would be nice.

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Posted: 01 Feb 06, 18:26 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the Teachers soundtrack was also released before Mr. Bad Guy here in Brazil.

Cheers,

Ogre-


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Posted: 01 Feb 06, 18:49 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Queenzone GOLD.

This site rocks!!!

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Posted: 02 Feb 06, 08:33 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

rhyeking wrote:


Now, to really make your head hurt, the Instrumental on the Solo Collection Boxed Set features the "Teachers" version (without vocals), rather than the album version.

My only question now is *why bother* with two versions anyway, when the differences are so small? (Rhetorical question, no need to answer...I know Queen did this sort of thing a lot!)


Yes that is right. The instrumental version was made during the original sessions, hence is from the OST version. I think Freddie decided to remix it for MR. BAD GUY so it would not sound so 'weak' in the new context.

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Posted: 02 Feb 06, 08:34 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Arnaldo "Ogre-" Silveira wrote:

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the Teachers soundtrack was also released before Mr. Bad Guy here in Brazil.

Cheers,

Ogre-


Same here in Argentina, in LP and cassette.

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Posted: 02 Feb 06, 08:37 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

rhyeking wrote:

I wish they'd release that soundtrack on CD, just so I can have that version in a digital form. I lifted it from my vinyl, and it sounds great, but remastered would be nice.


Well, the OST album was indeed pressed on CD, but only in Japan. It was then released in the local market and also in a limited run in the USA. I think there is no local pressing in the USA (I mean, that all the US CDs are made in Japan), but I have heard rumors otherwise.

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Posted: 02 Feb 06, 12:56 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Well, regarding the Instrumental on the Boxed Set. They could very have decided to use the Album Version as the source, but didn't. Either way, it's a simple matter of mixing out Freddie's vocal track.

For those who are interested in how a run-of-the-mill recording session works, here's a simple description. (For those who DO know how such recordings work, bear in mind I'm detailing an elementary description, not a full-blown tutorial on 20th Century recording techniques, so please refrain from saying, "Yes, but you forgot *this*.")

A band or artist goes into a studio to record. Let's jump to the final recording of tracks (past the demo stages...this is band recording what will be the master, and ussually final, version).

Each musician (drummer, bassist, etc) lays down his/her track (e.g. the guitar track) seperate from the others' tracks (e.g. the drum track). Sometimes this will happen with all the players together in the studio, playing the song as a whole. There are microphones and pick-ups (mic hardware built into guitars, synths, etc) recording each instrument. Each instrument's sound is carried to the mixing board (big console with lots of knobs and buttons) and recorded onto it's own (used to be celluloid tape, now it mostly digital) track on the Master.
All these tracks run parrallel with each other:

So try to visualize...

Lead Guitar: Track 1
Rhythm Guitar: Track 2
Additional Guitar: Track 3
Bass Guitar: Track 4
Piano: Track 5
Synth: Track 6
Bass Drum: Track 7
Snare Drum 1: Track 8
Snare Drum 2: Track 9
Cymbal 1: Track 10
Cymbal 2: Track 11
High-Hat: Track 12
Cowbell: Track 13
Ambient Drum Mic 1: Track 14
Ambient Drum Mic 2: Track 15
Backing Vocal Mic 1: Track 16
Backing Vocal Mic 2: Track 17
Lead Vocal Mic 1: Track 18

(Let's assume there's no orchestra or other special instruments in this).

18 seperate tracks (or if you try to picture them as 18 parrallel lines, all side by side, it helps), and that's for a standard song. The mixing console does just what its name suggests, mixes all of these tracks together, allowing the artists and the engineer assisting them, to raise and lower the volume of each track individually, while listening to the whole song(this stage is called Setting the Levels). When they finally decide that each instrument and voice sounds the way the artists want, they play the tracks, set to the each proper level, and record it to the album's master tape (again it's mostly digital now). This is what ends up getting released.

When an artist or engineer wants to do an extended version, or an out-and-out dance remix, or a subtle change (such as in "Foolin' Around", he or she sits back at the console with those original master tracks and tweaks them some more. For the dance remix, say, they may add a Back Beat Track or two (or eleven) and mix out all the original drum tracks.

Now, back in the days of reel-to-reel celluloid master tapes, there may be two or three such masters for each song, each with different elements of the song. When mixing, these are cued up and played simultaneously.

What's happened with some of Queen's masters "elements" is that a few of the tapes vanished from their vaults. A notorious example of this was Roger's backing vocal track for "Coming Soon". It went missing and when Brian came to re-mixing the DTS for the DVD-A of The Game, he had to use an alternate track, hence its different sound.

The master for "God Save The Queen" was thought lost, but it was found in time fr the 30th Anniversay release of Opera, so Brian could do a full re-mix of the teack for surround.

Have I bored everyone yet?

Again, this was a simplified explanation and any professional sound engineers out there, I freely admit, there's a whole lot more to the process.

Back to my original point, when compiling the Solo Collection, they could have used the album version's master instead of the Teache