Forums > Sharing The Music - Announce > The Queen bootleg DVD; uninterested shit

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Rompez user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 24 Apr 06, 07:17 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I always had the same thoughts. Some time ago a group of Genesis fans bought a very rare roll of film (!) of a band's Shepperton 1973 performance (only about 5 of them were printed). They spend a LOT money for the film itself. Then they restored the video and sound and transferred it to DVD (Tranfering flim to video is very complex operation by the way). Result is really amazing. And after spending months of work and thousands of bucks they shared it on Dime for free! But at the same time some people on queenzone were preaching about Houston video been shared. Kind of shame...

willem-jan 8923 user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 24 Apr 06, 09:08 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I actually agree with you. Although there are quite a few excellent bootlegs, the audience shot ones are relatively poor compared to other bands. Of course it's not fair to compare the Freddie period with bands that are around today, since equipment was not at the same level as today's. But when compared to other classic bands, the lay-out / editing of bootlegs is rather poor.

But then again, you didn't do anything yourself to improve that. So, it looks like you are just as lazy as other Queenfans (including myself). Maybe Queen fans are not as passionate about bootlegging as other band's fans. Most of them are actually to lazy to figure out how to get torrents working.
Look at any other band's fan-page, and everybody uses torrents without a problem.

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Posted: 24 Apr 06, 11:11 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

<font color=black>Dennis Daja<h6>QZs God wrote:



Now I've got into The Who and Pink Floyd boots, and I'm amazed how mutch effort people take to make a nice DVD. Pink Floyd even has "bootleg producers" who collect nice footage, always as low generation as possible. Make proffesional moving menu's ect. I take harvested for example.
The footage might be shot from far and with one camera, they always make it look the best way they can. Most of the times you can choose what kind of audio you want, like 5.1 dolby digital.
There are sites wich contains several covers and technical information about the circulating version.

Another example from The Who (Houston '75). Fans took the effort in collecting 2 audience sources straight from the master, and compile a highly interesting video. It's as enjoyable to watch as a proffesional recording, with Excellent audio. It contains a great menu and they putted on a lot of bonus video's. They always put on bonus video's.

These are just a view examples from artists. Why can't we Queen fans do this? Give the best experience on all of our boots? Why do we keep low generation tapes to ourselves?


That's a very true statement. I've been collecting Led Zeppelin for a while now and I'm always amazed how the LZ trading community actually cares about the quality and the integrity of the music they spread. There are virtually no mp3 sources and they have managed to track down and transfered the masters or low gens (i.e. 1st gen, 2nd gen, 3rd gen) of about 90% of the shows available. There are hardly any shows without lineage and there are A LOT of master transfers. Plus you have to consider that LZ played their first show in 1968 and most of their shows available are from the first half of the 70ies, so for obvious reasons it's been a lot more difficult to track down these sources than it would be for Queen shows. For example many of the '69 LZ shows available are from the masters while of Queen's Magic Tour there is not a single (!!) verified master transfer and hardly low gen ones. This situation is just sad and the fact that very few people in the Queen trading scene actually care about lineages prevents the fans and collectors from hearing the recorded shows in the best quality and most complete form possible. Instead of only looking for 'new' shows traders should track down low gens of the shows that are available already. I know that sounds a lot easier than it actually is, but if it can be done for other artists, why shouldn't it be possible for Queen as well?

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Posted: 24 Apr 06, 12:56 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Hah. I've long known it was a shitty situation, but you guys have made it even clearer with this thread. This is a good discussion.


"Your not funny, your not a good musician, theres a difference between being funny and being an idiot, you obviously being the latter" - Dave R Fuller
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Posted: 24 Apr 06, 13:16 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I wouldn't do it because I really don't care that there is a better quality version of the concert that I have on audio/dvd/vhs somewhere in this planet. I really can't be arsed to see Freddie in slightly better quality. And I certainly don't care about seeing dvd's which have 4 20 second pieces of songs in a very distant shot with godaweful grainy and blurry quality


"On the first day Pim & Niek created a heavenly occupation. Pim & Niek blessed it and named it 'Loosch'."



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Posted: 24 Apr 06, 14:02 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

FriedChicken<br><font size=1>The Almighty</font> wrote:

And I certainly don't care about seeing dvd's which have 4 20 second pieces of songs in a very distant shot with godaweful grainy and blurry quality


But if the best possible version was made available, it wouldn't be grainy and blurry at all, right? But the problem is, people are selfish and want to keep everything for themselves, as if they have legal rights to it or something.

Niek, you've got a pretty low view on bootlegs, because you're used to Queen bootlegs... most of which, on the grand scale of things, are crap. As has already been mentioned, there are so many amazing Zeppelin/Floyd/Who bootlegs out there, and they are completely the work of devoted fans. We have little of that in the Queen community.

I know of so many people who have audience and soundboard recordings of Queen, and for various reasons, they want to keep them to themselves. Here's a list of what I know exists:

London 3-31-74 complete soundboard, clone of master (only complete UK Queen II recording)
Cleveland 1-23-77 soundboard master
Syracuse 2-8-77 audience recording, complete (only complete US ADATR recording)
Atlanta 2-21-77 video
Liverpool 77 complete soundboard (not sure which night)
Los Angeles 12-22-77 audience recording, second generation
Monterrey 10-9-81 video
Puebla 81 video (not sure which night)
Drammen 4-10-82 audience recording
Leiden 9-20-84 soundboard
Auckland 4-13-85 (not sure if it's audience or soundboard)
Leiden 86 soundboard (not sure which night)

These things are all kept under wraps, and many can give us great insight into Queen as a live band. The only recordings of Queen doing White Christmas, Freddie drunk on stage, and concerts in Mexico are all secrets to most of us.

Good topic.



"The more generous you are with your music, the more it comes back to you." -- Dan Lampinski



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Posted: 24 Apr 06, 14:37 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Good question, good thread.

Queen were the first band I started collecting, and video wise I was impressed with what I saw. Mind you, this was several years back and I've changed my mind.

Since I've started collecting Springsteen DVD's, the difference in quality is immense. Within this community are experts; tapers who buy cheap seats to get positions to film. Many of them liase with each other, so their cameras have a clear focus. The mixes are pretty much spot on, and dubbing experts work on remastering audio and synching it all.

Man I wish Queen shows would be available in such a professional way!


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Queen + Paul Rodgers :: 2005 Tour Artwork and Bootleg Listing Sites
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Posted: 24 Apr 06, 16:09 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

<font color=black>Dennis Daja<h6>QZs God wrote:

When I still was a little Dennis :-P, I started collecting Queen DVD boots. I didn't know how bootlegs from other artists looked like, so I was pretty satisfied with the stuff I got.

A lot DVD's contained horribly high generation tapes, putted on a disc. People didn't care wether it was in sync, VCD-sourced, Kazaa quality and most of the times without a decent menu.
Ínformation was hard to find, and a good front-cover even harder.

Now I've got into The Who and Pink Floyd boots, and I'm amazed how mutch effort people take to make a nice DVD. Pink Floyd even has "bootleg producers" who collect nice footage, always as low generation as possible. Make proffesional moving menu's ect. I take harvested for example.
The footage might be shot from far and with one camera, they always make it look the best way they can. Most of the times you can choose what kind of audio you want, like 5.1 dolby digital.
There are sites wich contains several covers and technical information about the circulating version.

Another example from The Who (Houston '75). Fans took the effort in collecting 2 audience sources straight from the master, and compile a highly interesting video. It's as enjoyable to watch as a proffesional recording, with Excellent audio. It contains a great menu and they putted on a lot of bonus video's. They always put on bonus video's.

These are just a view examples from artists. Why can't we Queen fans do this? Give the best experience on all of our boots? Why do we keep low generation tapes to ourselves?


Good point. THe Harvested stuff from PF is good stuff. THose guys put in alot of effort into what they do.

I know Kiss fans who collect boots (me included) are generous when it comes to DVD boots. There are alot of audience shows that have 3 or sometimes 4 cam mixes that have been put together. But as always in the trading community there is stuff that remains to be rare trade for a rare trade.

I dont know why people feel the need to hoard bootlegs - especially in the queen world. One way or another, the shits gonna get out - so keeping it for yourself(s) isnt going to do you any good. Just let the people have it. Its no good when only a few people know what a concert sounds/looks like.

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Posted: 24 Apr 06, 17:11 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Why bother when there are professionally recorded shows (the stuff which was shown on the screen was also recorded) and in the hands of some collectors ?

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Posted: 24 Apr 06, 17:28 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Interesting topic...

I'm collecting Nirvana stuff and as the bands you talked about, there is a lot of great stuff and most of the recordings are not mp3-sourced and are the best available because there is a very well structured community. 95 % of the recordings gens are known. Hoarding is not that present in the Nirvana community because the big traders who have the best sources transfer them and put them on the international trading website of Nirvana. This could be the same for Queen on Queenzone but all which is shared here is mostly mp3 and people are happy with it. That's a problem and I don't see any solution. Many of us collectors have a bunch of recordings but some are mp3-sourced or not the best available because there's no people trading or sharing the best sources on the net. The problem also is that sometimes we have some sources which are thought to be the best ones and they are not. And where is the best copy? We don't know.

I can show you some Nirvana websites and I would love the same websites exist for Queen: www.livenirvana.com and www.nirvanaguide.com .
Every single circulating source is described here and there is a hub where only lossless stuff is shared. That's only the way how we can get the best sources.

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Posted: 24 Apr 06, 19:05 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

This topic is an excellent use of the message board and a very worthwhile subject for discussion. Maybe opening a dialogue on the subject will lead to something. Either way, its infinitely more productive than the millionth "was Freddie really gay?" thread. Good show, gents. Given how frequently people on these boards complain about Queen Productions not releasing this and that, its at once inspiring and depressing to realize that we could have been turning out great product on our own but just haven't. Maybe that can change.

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Posted: 24 Apr 06, 20:28 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

maybe a Jazz Collection DVD?
Since there is no real good jazz show. There are certainly alot of clips and things, maybe bonus features being interviews and such?



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Posted: 24 Apr 06, 21:57 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

So far Queen trading is the upmost different community in terms of what gets out, and what you need to even get stuff you would otherwise never have.
Meeting people in other bands trading circles I was shocked at how easy and how so much is shared without after thought.


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Posted: 24 Apr 06, 22:09 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Im into bootleg colleting, and well, i've seen that there's a lot of careless about Queen roios, i love how zepp community has grown, the audio quality and video. Now im amazed about all the new video discoveries about Pink Floyd, the dvds has outstandin quality, really amazin. Queen community has to grow, a lot should i say


Loser in the end!!!
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Posted: 24 Apr 06, 22:22 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

<font color=black>Dennis Daja<h6>QZs God wrote:

Now, don't let this become a share or not topic.

The point is that Queen boots are from low gen's and lousy compiled and dressed ect.
And why can't we help eachother out to get nice shows on the market! So you really get an interesting DVD wich you wanna play over and over again.

I also take this Queen+ Paul Rodgers tour as example, there are an AWFUL lot video boots on the market, with a lot of different sources. Why don't we compile those camera shots, and make nice shows with best audio/video?
Even those short shots from like a telephone can have interesting shots in ex. quality.

Perhaps we people could team up and make a Queen+ Paul Rodgers tour DVD collection. With nice menu's, compiled camera shots, nice audio.

But the point is, who can do what? and who is willing to move his/her arse? and who is willing to give his private recording to deliver the best possible experience?

The more angles the interesting!


Interesting points. It all comes down to who WANTS to give up their footage. I just dont see that happening. I like the idea, but people giving up vid - I just dont see that happening

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Posted: 25 Apr 06, 03:39 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Interesting discussion. Just a couple of my thoughts:

1. I have a feeling the Queen community is not as friendly as communities of other bands. This is caused by the overall approach to trading. There are selfish collectors who keep their stuff for themselves and there are selfish leechers who keep asking for free stuff without giving anything in return. That's a neverending fight and the situation won't be changed sooner than in 5-10 years.

2. I don't think there's so much stuff that isn't shared. There are probably some "very rare" recordings, for example those that GH mentioned. But how much is that? 5-10% of all the Queen recordings. I think we all can live without them.

The low gen. videos were in posession of long-time Queen traders who in most cases "retired" when Freddie died. The new generation of fans don't have access to these old videos, that's what I think.

Look at Queen + PR tour - there's a HUGE amount of DVD's available, most are in almost excellent quality, some are even multi-angle. It's getting better.

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Posted: 25 Apr 06, 04:26 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I completely agree with you Martin.

The Queen community isn't very friendly towards trading and or sharing of bootleg recordings, but that is not just because of those who are unwilling to share their "rare" recordings. I even think that the least of all problems.

This is my point of view:

It has more to do with the so called leechers and commercial bootleggers (mostly from Japan).

Two examples from the past:

Many years ago I traded/released the 1984 and 1986 recordings of Queen in Vienna from master tape, only to find out that in less then 2 months (!!!) all of these recordings were available on silver pressed bootlegs. The same thing happened with all Bowie recordings from Vienna. The funny thing was that the Bowie shows were from MP3 source, inferior quality recordings.

The result: my supplier quit supplying me with other recordings, he doesn't want his recordings to be available for those who are only in it for the money.

At the same time there was a person in Brussels who supplied me with some rare recordings (also from master tape and/or 1st generations - Queen as well as Bowie recordings), he told me he was thrilled by the fact that he could do Queen and Bowie fans a favour by releasing his high quality recordings...

Same thing there: in a couple of months most of his recordings were on silver pressed CDs. Result: he decided not to release any other recordings from his collection.

The Led Zeppelin market seems more friendly towards trading, same thing goes for Bob Dylan fans.

But that may have to do with the fact that the Led Zeppeling and Bob Dylan community had there problems with commercial bootleggers long time before the Queen community had.

I know that the Bob Dylan community started a different approach many years ago (as early as 1998), releasing as much as possible from the lowest available sources - there were tons of user groups dedicated to trading/sharing Bob Dylan recordings. If you can't win the war against commercial bootleggers than release as much as possible for free, so that the commercial bootleggers have a hard time selling their (already wide available) recordings. Those who are/were interested in Bob Dylan recordings already had what they wanted - or they could easily get it.

Maybe in 5 years or so the same thing will happen with Queen recordings, but as long as there are commercial bootleggers and leechers there will be a lot of traders who are unwilling to share there "elusive" recordings with other traders.


isolar2
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Posted: 25 Apr 06, 15:57 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I just long for the day when the YV decides to share the version of No One But You with Freddie on vocals.

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Posted: 26 Apr 06, 03:33 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Totally agree with you Dennis.
I just go for the throat when i say it.

Good to see ...that you now see

Just to add to your knowledge........IF a DVD is known to out there somewhere,no VCD of it will be released.It will be squashed so as to keep the quality of said DVD.
This stops crap quality in years to come.....like the said files you get on here

Unfortunatly,half you lot spend so much time collecting crap quality & then compressing that into an even crappier quality that you all think that its the bees knees & have lost touch with what is right.

It wont happen though Den....1/2 on here cant even get rapidshare to work and HDVob,vob,mpeg2,mpeg1,wmv & rm is just a picture and wma,ra,mp3,ogg,ape,flac,shn & wav are just sound to queenzone eyes & ears.....quality is not in the equation.
Ive seen on here excellent quality quoted for a 38Mb VCD lasting 20 minutes.
You've all lost touch man!
Flacs being fucked into mp3 days after its release.
Ive seen DVD's put into windows avi days after.
I have even seen the worst SVCD put together job(marumbi)ever.Not 1 thing correct in the video structure of it.
In 2 years you will all be looking/listening at crap again for something that was recorded this year mainly because you havnt a clue as to what you are doing & dont wish to learn.

People.....
the smaller the file,the crappier the quality is..(as a general rule of thumb).
The more compressed the more you lose.

As for menus.....hahahahha
read above

I'm with the 5% who keep what they have that is in great quality.......only because we know that you will fuck it quicker than it took to make it.
And we like to keep it that way

When you learn to respect quality....we will give.
Your choice,we already have them.

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Posted: 26 Apr 06, 03:35 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

PieterMC wrote:

I just long for the day when the YV decides to share the version of No One But You with Freddie on vocals.


As long as it was encoded by someone else though hahahhaha