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John S Stuart user not visiting Queenzone.com
John S Stuart
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Posted: 05 Jul 06, 10:30 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Queenzone is not my home, I am as much a guest here as anyone else.
As a guest, I just wondered what was the actual concensus of opinion in the house, and am I really a minority of one?

http://www.queenzone.com/queenzone/forumnew/forum_topic_view.aspx?Q_FORUM_ID=10&Q_FORUM_NAME=Queen+General+Discussion&TOPIC_SUBJECT=Calling+All+Girls+vid...+lmao&Q=810441&page=3

Asterik wrote:

John S Stuart wrote:

...NO OFFICIAL DOWNLOADS. SO REMOVE THE F*CKING LINKS!


I suggest you calm down sir, before some of us find your policeman act a little nauseating.



If we all played to the rules of the site - there would be no need to act like a policeman.

Which leads me to my next question, why is it that those who seek to improve the site, and keep it functioning for the good of all queen fans are seen as the enemy - while those who would upload/download for short-term personal gain, viewed as some sort of heroic figures?

So gauging opinion - is it really me that is out of step with Queenzone (in which case, I will keep my mouth closed in future), or as a community (in the absence of self-control) do we still need 'police-men' type figures?

If the latter is true, why can't links to official material be deleted by some sort of moderation (I am not advocating censorship - just deleting links to official product) - and repeat offenders banned?

(For example, despite of all our previous warnings and efforts, this link was still posted this very afternoon: http://www.queenzone.com/queenzone/forumnew/forum_topic_view.aspx?Q=817453)

I know this is a sorry state of affairs, but, this problem seems to have recently mushroomed out-of-control, and I know for a fact, - especially since the 'plundering' of 'Marie's The Name (Of His Latest Flame)', - that the 'powers that be' are not too happy with our site, and would have us shut-down in a heart-beat.

I for one, would be sad to see the demise of Queenzone, but if we are closed down because of our own greed and stupidity, then part of me sides with QPL in that it 'serves the b*ggers right!'

What are your views?




"Listen to them. Children of the night. What music they make."
Togg user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 05 Jul 06, 11:01 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I'm with you John well said.

As for the plundering from Cozy's effects well, I can't say how it got here, like many I listened and enjoyed it, however, if it turns out that it was genuinely stolen I sincerely hope it was not a zoner that did it. And it makes me feel effectively guilty for listening to it after hearing Brian's outcry, which is bizarre considering it has effectively landed in my lap so to speak, but maybe I will think twice about clicking on any similar links in the future?

I am also very concerned about the publishing of personal details on this site by some, but that's another story...


"It is better to sit in silence and have people think you're a fool, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt"
Erin user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 05 Jul 06, 11:34 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I get sick and tired of the requests for official material. I had to actually seek out and buy "impossible to find" singles, etc. to hear these tracks. It was difficult for me to do so at the time that I first got heavily into Queen. Nowadays, someone can pop on ebay and pretty much find anything they want..easy as pie.

I feel that these requests and download posts should be deleted if there is a real risk of QZ being shut down because of them.



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Posted: 05 Jul 06, 11:41 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

John,

You're not a minority of one.

Your message is necessary and should be repeated often since new members arrive here all the time - and some older members have yet to acknowledge its importance. However, I think your method of delivering the message sabotages your efforts.

Although you've said the same thing repeatedly, many of those you say it to are hearing it for the first time. While your passion is admirable, for members to be belittled by you, to be called idiot, selfish, etc., turns them from excited, well-meaning members into insulted and defensive ones. Perhaps if you refrain from insults and hostility, the essence of your posts won't be lost and more of us will echo your sentiments in a way that can help change things here.



"The others don't like my interviews. And frankly, I don't care much for theirs." ~ Freddie Mercury



DreaminQueen user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 05 Jul 06, 11:48 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Very well said John.

And I agree, we need the "policemen" around.
Especially for people like me who dont exactly know which is "offical" or "unoffical" material... Either way, i dont download it because i dont think its fair to the site or to Queen and those affiliated with it...

And after reading Brian's Soapbox, i can say that I'm glad i have done so. Simply because If I myself some day was in music, and i had things that i didnt want released yet simply because they werent what i wanted to the heard, (because im rather a perfectionist) then i would be miffed at things (like "Maries the Name") leaking out if i wasnt ready to release it.

And its not the money, its the integrity as an artist. I understand the die-hard fans wanting things like this, I wouldnt mind having it either! But its truly not fair to the artist. But as a die-hard fan, i would take pride in hunting down offical material. Plus its not fair to those who follow the rules of this site either if it gets shut down because of such disregard of their "favorite" artist. Disregard in the sense that they dont realize that they're hurting the integrity of their artform. Although I can see the temptation in such things.

Oh, and one more thing, we need to stop these spammers who make nonsensical threads as well... Thats another thing that should be "policed" well definatly moderated....

Cheers...





rocks. user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 05 Jul 06, 12:07 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I agree that there needs to be SOME moderation. But not to much. Ive seen heavily moderated boards and its members end up hating it and leaving. As for the official releases, things like album tracks are deffinitly a no-no, as well as official DVDs such as Wembley, We Will Rock You, Live At The Bowl, etc...but what about non-album b-sides...i dont know if we should bend rules for that, but they ARE hard to find...gah, its hard to decide what should be kicked out and what shouldnt be.

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Posted: 05 Jul 06, 12:09 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Hard to find or not they are still official


"It is better to sit in silence and have people think you're a fool, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt"
Erin user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 05 Jul 06, 12:11 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

WhatMustHeThink wrote:

but what about non-album b-sides...i dont know if we should bend rules for that, but they ARE hard to find...


No they aren't. They are very easy to find now, as I was saying earlier.

Serry... user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 05 Jul 06, 12:12 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

1) Guest here?!
2) Wrong forum, John. This thread will be beat by "Roger's balls", "look at this video at youtube!!!", "Brian May is HOOOOOOOOT" and other shit.
3) It all is sign of popularity. QZ is popular therefore QZ is a good target for idiots.

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Posted: 05 Jul 06, 13:02 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Serry... wrote:


2) Wrong forum, John. This thread will be beat by "Roger's balls", "look at this video at youtube!!!", "Brian May is HOOOOOOOOT" and other shit.


Sad, but true. But still worth a try to reach that crowd.


"You are only young once, but you can stay immature indefinitely." - Ogden Nash
YourValentine user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 05 Jul 06, 13:38 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I totally agree with you John.

I am a bit tired of this board being abused by so many idiots who don't even own a Queen record - why are they even here?
I delete threads on the Announce forum all the time - but it's a never ending task. The thread with Calling All Girls - I cannot delete the whole thread because someone in the middle posted a link to youtube. I just hope that "the powers" realise that QZ is not responsible for youtube...

As to the Brian May words about "Marie Was The Name..." I did not see that either because I don't read the soap box that much anymore. But I think to accuse someone of theft without knowing the facts is pretty tough. From what we hear a Japanese collector bought the personal tapes of Cozy Powell after his death. There is more material from these tapes on the Japanese bootleg market which is not the fault of QZ. The song was not even shared on QZ originally, it was shared on Dimeadozen. If Brian May releases that song tomorrow, I will buy it like any other material he released. I wish Brian May would see that fans don't want to rob him, they just collect and if there were no fans, there would probably be no collectors, either. Bootlegging comes with success and with fame. We are not the enemies.

edit: moving this to the serious forum


I do not want any google ads here.

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Posted: 05 Jul 06, 14:10 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

YourValentine wrote:



edit: moving this to the serious forum


I think this should have remained in the general discussion forum. Even though it is serious, the chances of it being seen are greater in general. And that's the intent, yes? To get more people to see the problem and stop perpetuating it?



"The others don't like my interviews. And frankly, I don't care much for theirs." ~ Freddie Mercury



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Posted: 05 Jul 06, 15:48 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

John S Stuart wrote:


If we all played to the rules of the site - there would be no need to act like a policeman.

Which leads me to my next question, why is it that those who seek to improve the site, and keep it functioning for the good of all queen fans are seen as the enemy - while those who would upload/download for short-term personal gain, viewed as some sort of heroic figures?


why can't links to official material be deleted by some sort of moderation (I am not advocating censorship - just deleting links to official product) - and repeat offenders banned?




Hear hear, John you are quite right. We all see QZ as a place of freedom for fans however we are in danger of losing the whole thing because some people can't understand the need for caution.
Uploaders, downloaders, bootleggers and "liberators" tread a fine line. Knowing that while we own a recording we have no legal right to distribute or broadcast it and doing our best to avoid any implication that we are treading on the rights and feelings of those musicians who lovingly (or not) created the content yet wanting to spread the joy that we experienced when we first heard it. Others want it all and for free without care for laws, rights and freedoms or the consequences of losing them. No doubt they are the same people who use pirated copies of windows and complaint when MS use WGA to disrupt them.

I don't understand how someone can have a comprehensive bootleg collection including unreleased studio tracks and not own the "real thing", the studio albums to put it all in context.
Surely listening to Now I'm here and understanding that it was related to the US tour with Mott then listening to boots of that tour and trying to appreciate the changes that the band were experiencing because of it makes more sense. Don't fall for the "more rare tracks makes me a bigger fan" deal.


Bootlegs are not a grey area they are illegal .

Just because the band don't want to pursue us for sharing boots doesn't mean they can't. All that the bootlegger owns is the tape NOT the rights to distribute, broadcast, transfer or sell. Note distribute and sell are different things.

Sharing officially released stuff gets unwanted attention becuase people are seen as depriving QPL of cash, Whether they need that cash or not is irrelevant, they are entitled to it by law and they have the right to pursue anyone who breaks that law (or helps other people to break it) If QZ is seen as a tool to break the law it will be closed down.

Just one official track could bring the full weight of QPL on to Richard and close us down.

Bring on heavy handed moderation say I if it keeps the idiots at bay.

Neil


"amateurs practice till they get it right, professionals practice till they can't get it wrong"
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Posted: 05 Jul 06, 15:52 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

magicalfreddiemercury wrote:

John,

You're not a minority of one.

Your message is necessary and should be repeated often since new members arrive here all the time - and some older members have yet to acknowledge its importance. However, I think your method of delivering the message sabotages your efforts.

Although you've said the same thing repeatedly, many of those you say it to are hearing it for the first time. While your passion is admirable, for members to be belittled by you, to be called idiot, selfish, etc., turns them from excited, well-meaning members into insulted and defensive ones. Perhaps if you refrain from insults and hostility, the essence of your posts won't be lost and more of us will echo your sentiments in a way that can help change things here.


I agree


Je vais bien.

Estoy bien.
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Posted: 05 Jul 06, 16:24 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Some days ago there was a discussion between me, Rick and a user called rover in the Announce forum. This person wanted official material to be shared on QZ. I tried to explain him that that could lead to QZ being closed down, but I was accused of being "classist" and "not a real fan" because "QZ's mission is to share Queen music to the world, official material included".
Obviously the discussion lead to nothing as that person didn't want to understand.

I think this is the problem. People do not want to understand. They just don't care, they just want to download all they can. If QZ is closed, they'll just find another site.

As much as I'd like QZ never to be closed, I think that there is nothing I can do. People just does not listen.


That time will come, one day you'll see that i'll be dead and you will laugh!
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Posted: 05 Jul 06, 16:39 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I agree with john s stuart on this topic i think anyone who posts official material should be banned immediately as then the number of posts promoting youtube or any other site will be not be blamed or threaten closure of queenzone.

In fact go a step further and i ask the moderator or others in authority delete all topics featuring you tube clips and if we want to access those videos then we can subscribe through proper means.

I don't want this site to close and i don't see why a minority should spoil it 4 the rest of us.

Amen.


Yes we'll keep on tryin

we'll tread that fine line

oh oh we'll keep on tryin

till the end of time

till the end of time.



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Posted: 05 Jul 06, 17:00 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

This is nonsense....

What is the difference? If people want to watch these "officially released" videos, they are gonna go to Youtube anyway.

Blather for the sake of blather, as far as I am concerned.


The Golden Gate Bridge should have a long bungee cord for people who aren’t quite ready to commit suicide but want to get in a little practice.
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Posted: 05 Jul 06, 17:52 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I agre also with John S - But isnt it all Real Fans/ Moral Fans duty to learn the new/young/queenfans how to act with sharing Queen stuff here on QZ ? We knew this going to happen right before the Q+PR Tour !? You all know that feeling when you explore the Queen Cat. These days its easier to find an album on the net than in the store sadly ! Well i know lots of REAL fans post a link to a CD or DVD when ppl ask for something, Thats good ! I think its time for all who agree with John S to take a step forward and learn how Real Fans Act.

Friends Will be Friends


Queen 2 Forever.
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Posted: 05 Jul 06, 18:07 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

DAVID M(AKA BRENDA) wrote:


I don't want this site to close and i don't see why a minority should spoil it 4 the rest of us.

Amen.


I'm with you. And I've seen sites close in other fandoms over this sort of thing.


"You are only young once, but you can stay immature indefinitely." - Ogden Nash
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Posted: 06 Jul 06, 02:27 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I agree John.

Twelve years ago, it was legal to sell bootlegs. A search for "bootleg" on RIAA.com indicates that the RIAA is only enforcing against SALES of bootlegs. They are going after the money: either sales of bootlegs, or illegal distribution of COPYRIGHTED product.

It is my view that QZ limits its legal risk by attempting to restrict downloads to bootleg material that has NEVER been released (and hence NOT copyrighted).

Whether one agrees with QZ rules is immaterial. One should abide by the rules of the host (Queenzone).

http://queenzone.com/queenzone/forumnew/forum_topic_view.aspx?Q=817782


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