Forums > Queen - General Discussion > talyors fall in the eighties.

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mike hunt user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 25 Jul 06, 02:26 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

people on these boards usually kill eighties queen, pointing out freddie lack of piano work or songwriting, also brians weaker guitar tracks like tear it up. I personally like the majority of their eighties stuff, but it could have been much better. The one reason why queens sound in the eighties sounded weak more than anything had to do with rogers drum sound, and lack of speed and power that he had in the 70's. In 1991 queen put out their best since the great 70's despite roger talyors weak drum work. Just think how much better Innuendo could have been with a better drummer. again, I think roger was great in the 70's, but he was pretty weak in the 80's and early 90's. Anyone agree?

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Posted: 25 Jul 06, 02:30 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

it actually depends on the song. headlong had a good drumming force. and so did invisible man. innuendo is probably one of the songs with weak drumming. it's either roger's fault or the way they recorded it.
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Posted: 25 Jul 06, 03:01 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

It could've also been that Roger was a lazy guy who didn't want to put effort and power into his playing... I know thats what i would've done, which is now why I'm a bass player... Everything can be easy if you find out a way to make it easy:P


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Posted: 25 Jul 06, 03:49 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

i, personally, have a huge love for all of queen's eighties stuff, and many of my fav queen songs are eighties songs.
ok, i admit. i'm an eighties groupie. born in 88, i missed them. i want them back! lol
i've never found roger's drumming weak, but i don't know enough about drumming and such to make a good comparison i guess. however, i think he wrote some brilliant stuff in the eighties. he, like freddie, bri and even john, were absolutely top songwriters.
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Posted: 25 Jul 06, 06:45 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

"and no synthesizers were used"

That's probably the main reason, ppl go for 70s' Queen, including myself as well. Adding to that the lack of guitar here and there, and you got kinda reasonable explanation.

Not that i dislike everything from half of TheGame onwards, but there were not that many really great songs from that era by far. Listen to the 70s' albums to find 2 or 3 really 'weak' songs on every one, listen to the 80s' albums and you'll find only 2 or 3 really 'strong' ones.

At least that's my humble opinion...

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Posted: 25 Jul 06, 06:54 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I love Roger's drumming, does it really matter that some of the songs had weak drumming on them, he might not want to show off all the time.


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Posted: 25 Jul 06, 06:56 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote


YES, Roger's drumming is much better in the 70's.

Damn those 80's! How many times do I have to tell you that much of the songs you name from the 80's don't have REAL DRUMS IN IT???!?!?

AS for Roger, in the studio... yes, his drumming tend to get a bit weaker, but he ALWAYS played with inteligence. This you gotta give it to him!

AS for the 90's, what's that rubbish stating that Innuendo (the song) has weak drum work??? You obviously don't know shit about drumming! It includes one of the difficult drum fills of all Queen's career! Oh, and many bar changes!


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Posted: 25 Jul 06, 07:50 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Al TurHao wrote:


YES, Roger's drumming is much better in the 70's.

Damn those 80's! How many times do I have to tell you that much of the songs you name from the 80's don't have REAL DRUMS IN IT???!?!?

AS for Roger, in the studio... yes, his drumming tend to get a bit weaker, but he ALWAYS played with inteligence. This you gotta give it to him!

AS for the 90's, what's that rubbish stating that Innuendo (the song) has weak drum work??? You obviously don't know shit about drumming! It includes one of the difficult drum fills of all Queen's career! Oh, and many bar changes!


sorry about that. i don't really drum you know. i liked the drumming in innuendo, but it's not as powerful as the other songs. it's kinda like his druming in the 80's.

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Posted: 25 Jul 06, 08:06 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

mike hunt wrote:

people on these boards usually kill eighties queen, pointing out freddie lack of piano work or songwriting, also brians weaker guitar tracks like tear it up. I personally like the majority of their eighties stuff, but it could have been much better. The one reason why queens sound in the eighties sounded weak more than anything had to do with rogers drum sound, and lack of speed and power that he had in the 70's. In 1991 queen put out their best since the great 70's despite roger talyors weak drum work. Just think how much better Innuendo could have been with a better drummer. again, I think roger was great in the 70's, but he was pretty weak in the 80's and early 90's. Anyone agree?



BULLSHIT MR. HUNT!

First of all, the "weaker" drumming had to do with style changes. Does a drummer always has to be quicker than lightning to be considered any good? NO of course, sheer rubbish!

And about Innuendo: I think that's the best Queen song ever, even better than Bo Rap or MOTBQ, and the drumming is not that easy on that one.

Just try it yourself? You'll find out.
Also I'd like to remember you that the person that actually WROTE Innuendo IS: Mr. Roger Meddows-Taylor.

When songs are poppy and have a straightforward 4/4 beat, there's no use for any fast/fancy drumming. It will ruin the track then.
Only drummers with an overblown ego will put fancy drumming in the track then. When a track should be danceble (and hey, were talking 80's!) the drumtrack should be kept simple. Amen.

And on the 80's drumsound: what about Under Pressure during the high note?
What about Machines? Man on the prowl? Princes of the universe? Kashoggi's ship? Was it all worth it? And the B-side Stealin'? Ride the wild wind?

Music changes, and so does the drumming together with it. The one fab thing about Queen, is that they refused to do the same stuff over and over again. They invented new sounds on every album. The diversity of tracks is immense.

It's only that the 70's work of Queen was suitable for fast and fancy drumming. The 80's work wasn't. Has nothing to do with Roger's skills, but just with the changing musical style.

Oh and for God's sake....stop this picking on Roger. I've seen it in different topics, and it really pisses me off...but I think that was obvient already.


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Posted: 25 Jul 06, 08:49 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Two points I'd like to throw out here for consideration;

1) As far as Innuendo being an example of a weak drumming track; Roger did indeed write it and he has stated that it was a conscious attempt to do a "Led Zeppelin type song". Perhaps he was trying to emulate John Bonham's style of drumming? It certainly sounds unlike anything else Roger had done in the past.

2) While I don't neccessarily agree with this line of thinking, many people think that when Queen started using Mack, he recorded things very differently than RT Baker. Perhaps he didn't emphasize drumming or encourage experimental efforts?

I think Roger had some very good drum tracks in the 80's-as stated above, a great example would be "Back to Humans" and the little bit in the middle of "One Vision" is pretty good too.


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Posted: 25 Jul 06, 09:15 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote


To innadizon: Sorry if I seemed a bit straight-forward. It was not my intention to be rude. Cheers, mate.

You all state something right, Roger adapted his drumming to the songs. It's obviously not just the drums that became simple, the songs did TOO!

However, there's one HUGE mistake that is repeated from time to time: Roger did not WRITE INNUENDO!!!!

It was a band colaboration, with most effort by Freddie. Roger help finishing the lyrics (as they are quite Taylor-esque), but regarding the music section, specially the middle part, it "screams" Freddie all over the place.


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Posted: 25 Jul 06, 09:54 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Bob-Plant wrote:

Two points I'd like to throw out here for consideration;

1) As far as Innuendo being an example of a weak drumming track; Roger did indeed write it and he has stated that it was a conscious attempt to do a "Led Zeppelin type song". Perhaps he was trying to emulate John Bonham's style of drumming? It certainly sounds unlike anything else Roger had done in the past.

2) While I don't neccessarily agree with this line of thinking, many people think that when Queen started using Mack, he recorded things very differently than RT Baker. Perhaps he didn't emphasize drumming or encourage experimental efforts?

I think Roger had some very good drum tracks in the 80's-as stated above, a great example would be "Back to Humans" and the little bit in the middle of "One Vision" is pretty good too.


Yes, I fully agree. And indeed, Mack recorded the drums very different than RT Baker. RT usually mikes the drums with 12 mics or even more, and Mack used only four mics. Queen was very enthousiastic about Mack's recording. Freddie once said that Mack would get a better drumsound just using 4 mics than other engineer's using 12 mics.

Now, we (Digitube studio) just recorded drums last sunday, and usually we use about 10 mics for drums. But last sunday we used only 5 mics. 1 snare/hihat, 1 kickdrum, 2 toms, 1 overhead. I really must say: it bloody well worked!

Mack used 1 snare/hihat, 1 kick, 2 overheads. But okay, not that interesting I think. But I think that might prove that Mack was quite into experimenting on sounds though!

I also agree on the middle part of Innuendo being totally Freddie. It's really a Queen-all together song. But I thought it was actually Roger coming up with the rough skeleton and - mostly important for the feel - the bolero-style of drumming.

Does anyone know how David Richards recorded drums by the way? His drumsound is also veeeeery nice! (I think :-P)


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Posted: 25 Jul 06, 10:06 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Bob-Plant wrote:

Two points I'd like to throw out here for consideration;

1) As far as Innuendo being an example of a weak drumming track; Roger did indeed write it and he has stated that it was a conscious attempt to do a "Led Zeppelin type song". Perhaps he was trying to emulate John Bonham's style of drumming? It certainly sounds unlike anything else Roger had done in the past.

2) While I don't neccessarily agree with this line of thinking, many people think that when Queen started using Mack, he recorded things very differently than RT Baker. Perhaps he didn't emphasize drumming or encourage experimental efforts?

I think Roger had some very good drum tracks in the 80's-as stated above, a great example would be "Back to Humans" and the little bit in the middle of "One Vision" is pretty good too.


Freddie wrote the majority of the track Innuendo. This has been discussed many times.


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Posted: 25 Jul 06, 11:01 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote


Songs of LZep with drum resemblences to Innuendo:

Kashmir
When The Levee Breaks


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Posted: 25 Jul 06, 12:26 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Roger's drumming was better live. If you like faster drumming then listen to heavy metal bands.


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Posted: 25 Jul 06, 14:15 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

only yime i remember roger and weak drums is live killers - even that sounds ok if u haven't listened to it in a while.

rogers drumming has always been good - was it all worth it etc class.

but ya show must go on a bit lousy etc...

but the main thing that disappoints me was freddies lack of piano playing in the 80's cos he was unique at the piano (not the best like mozart or anything!).


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Posted: 25 Jul 06, 14:41 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

i think the drumming of rogers is evident it the song hammer to fall. i'm a big fan of the 80's queen generation. i think in the terms of looks they looked really good!for the past month i have been listening to all my queen ablums in order by #. starting with the first song on the first queen ablum and all the #1 songs all way up to the the last song on a the albums. and i have noticed that the queen songs in the 80's were more pop like than rock so that would make roger's drumming not as noticeable(sorry if spelled incorrectly)
i have a question for mr. mike hunt. what part of new york do you live in?


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Posted: 25 Jul 06, 16:07 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Digitube wrote:



And indeed, Mack recorded the drums very different than RT Baker. RT usually mikes the drums with 12 mics or even more, and Mack used only four mics. Queen was very enthousiastic about Mack's recording. Freddie once said that Mack would get a better drumsound just using 4 mics than other engineer's using 12 mics.


Prior to recording with Mack, I never hear/heard Roger use the open hi-hat with the snare. Obviously he adapted his style/technique for a new sound engineer and took advantage by creating new sounds. If that means you're a weak drummer, than so be it!

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Posted: 25 Jul 06, 17:09 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Maybe it sounds different because he did not play himself anymore but let the drum computer do it...
At least Queen were rich enough that they did not have to rely on the Korg M1 drum sounds exclusively.


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Posted: 25 Jul 06, 17:20 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I love Roger's skill. I do admit, maybe his style changed in the later years, but he is still the god of percussion to me!!! I love him!