Forums > Sharing The Music - Announce > mp3 silence at start

forum rss feed
Author

earwig user not visiting Queenzone.com

Bohemian: 273 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 29 Jul 06, 19:33 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Obviously with live concerts you want the sound to flow when converting to WAV. Is there a set time period (e.g. 500ms???) for that annoying silence at the start of an mp3 or do you just have to guess how much to trim?

Thanks for any info


Dead Daddy Long-legs. I'm still drinking it.
mr mercury user not visiting Queenzone.com
Adam who?????
mr mercury
Deity: 4630 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 29 Jul 06, 21:32 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Firstly, before anyone else says it, if you are thinking of converting from MP3 to wave there is no point as you will still get an MP3 sounding wave file. This is because MP3 is a lossy format and wave isnt. Basically what that means is that MP3 files "throw away" certain frequencies that the human ear sometimes cant hear and a small amount that can be heard. Once these are thrown away, they cannit be got back. Wave files keep everything.

Secondly if the silence at the start is bugging you then get rid of it. I sometimes do that and put a fade in using programs like Adobe Audition, etc.

Hope that helps.


"Normally i can't dance to save my life.

But as soon as I step in dog shit, I can moonwalk better than Michael Jackson."
earwig user not visiting Queenzone.com

Bohemian: 273 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 30 Jul 06, 06:40 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

OK thanks. I only want to convert to WAV purely to burn a CD for my walkman and I don't want to fade in every track through the gig :(
Just wondered if there's a set time for those silences at the start of every track.


Dead Daddy Long-legs. I'm still drinking it.
mr mercury user not visiting Queenzone.com
Adam who?????
mr mercury
Deity: 4630 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 30 Jul 06, 07:16 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sorry I didnt mean you should put a fade in on every track maybe just the very first one. Tracks after that shouldnt have a fade in them at all or even a bit of silence no matter how short the silence is.


"Normally i can't dance to save my life.

But as soon as I step in dog shit, I can moonwalk better than Michael Jackson."
Deacon Fan user not visiting Queenzone.com
on vacation
Deacon Fan
Royalty: 1757 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 30 Jul 06, 07:32 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I think you need to read his post again Mr Mercury. Has nothing to do with quality, it's all about getting rid of the gaps which are caused by the mp3 format. :)

I wish there was an easy answer.. I've decoded a couple to check and even if there was an exact number, which there doesn't seem to be.. they add a bit of noise there too so you can't just look at a waveform and see an exact start or stop, if that makes sense. You can cut a little and maybe get lucky that crowd noise might hide the edit, but generally there will still be a little click because they never go back together just right without tedious work :-P

While we're on the subject.. why do not only bootleggers but record companies consistently put the live song track markers in the wrong place? I'm friggin' tired of hearing the introduction to a song at the end of the previous track! Geez! It's idiotic. Same goes for live DVDs. I guess they think the public want to hear a song start as soon as they hit that 'next' button or whatever.. well the same folks who skip around like that also might want to play the tracks in different order, so it would be nice not hear "and now here's a song called 'place song title here' " END OF TRACK / different song.

Sorry.. um, good luck with the gaps thing.

freddie lives 28817 user not visiting Queenzone.com

Bohemian: 274 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 30 Jul 06, 07:53 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The only way to do it (that i'm aware of) is the tedious way: use a program like sound forge and physically "cut" the silence out.


Arnaldo "Ogre-" Silveira user not visiting Queenzone.com
Arnaldo
Deity: 2254 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 30 Jul 06, 08:21 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

When I used to burn live CDs, I used Nero. I used an option that crossfades the beggining of a track with the end of the last one, and set it to half a second. I'm sorry if I don't detail that, it has been years since I last burnt a CD using that procedure. I hope it helps.

Cheers,

Ogre-


Keep Passing the Open Windows
Vladdy user not visiting Queenzone.com

Rocker: 42 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 30 Jul 06, 10:00 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Nero has an option called "No pause between tracks"...although this option doesn't deal with gaps that are literally in the MP3/WAV file.....still it may help..or maybe not...:D

Cheers


Music creates love....so let's make music
Wilki Amieva user not visiting Queenzone.com
We must all HEAR to believe
Wilki Amieva
Royalty: 1417 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 30 Jul 06, 10:08 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I suggest you use a software utility called mp3Trim to deal with digital silence in mp3 encoded files. There is also WavTrim which does the same with wave files. Both are FREE ...and such a jollyfication!

mr mercury user not visiting Queenzone.com
Adam who?????
mr mercury
Deity: 4630 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 30 Jul 06, 10:28 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Mikahl wrote:

I think you need to read his post again Mr Mercury. Has nothing to do with quality, it's all about getting rid of the gaps which are caused by the mp3 format. :)

I wish there was an easy answer.. I've decoded a couple to check and even if there was an exact number, which there doesn't seem to be.. they add a bit of noise there too so you can't just look at a waveform and see an exact start or stop, if that makes sense. You can cut a little and maybe get lucky that crowd noise might hide the edit, but generally there will still be a little click because they never go back together just right without tedious work :-P

While we're on the subject.. why do not only bootleggers but record companies consistently put the live song track markers in the wrong place? I'm friggin' tired of hearing the introduction to a song at the end of the previous track! Geez! It's idiotic. Same goes for live DVDs. I guess they think the public want to hear a song start as soon as they hit that 'next' button or whatever.. well the same folks who skip around like that also might want to play the tracks in different order, so it would be nice not hear "and now here's a song called 'place song title here' " END OF TRACK / different song.

Sorry.. um, good luck with the gaps thing.


Mikahl, I did read the original post but I was only making a point before someone else said so. As for the track markers, I think that its purely a matter of taste as to where they are put and record company's or bootleggers arent gonna please everybody in this.

Getting rid of gaps properly is a tedious task as someone already pointed out. I did it a couple of times and then decided to stop bothering to do so as 99% of the time the stuff was for me only.


"Normally i can't dance to save my life.

But as soon as I step in dog shit, I can moonwalk better than Michael Jackson."
earwig user not visiting Queenzone.com

Bohemian: 273 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 31 Jul 06, 09:29 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Thanks for everyone's comments.
Yeah, I did open the waveform in Adobe Audition but like someone said above, it's hard to see the difference between a noisy track and the actually start of sound.
I guess then there isn't a set amount of time for the silence.
Also, I agree with ID markers being in funny places. But i guess it's the Mastering engineer's opinion and if the artist feels strongly enough then it would get changed.


Dead Daddy Long-legs. I'm still drinking it.
brENsKi user not visiting Queenzone.com
How shall we f**k off, Oh Lord
brENsKi
Deity: 8088 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 31 Jul 06, 13:23 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

use nero, take the pause out between tracks,

then finally - use the cross-fade option


go deo na h√Čireann
Arnaldo "Ogre-" Silveira user not visiting Queenzone.com
Arnaldo
Deity: 2254 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 31 Jul 06, 20:28 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

<font color=green>Bren<font color=orange>ski wrote:

use nero, take the pause out between tracks,

then finally - use the cross-fade option


That is exactly what I do. I wish I were able to explain it concisely like you did :)

Cheers,

Ogre-


Keep Passing the Open Windows
Mr. Scully user not visiting Queenzone.com

Deity: 4257 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 01 Aug 06, 04:08 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

earwig - actually the silence (which is IMO a fault of *all* MP3 encoders) is the MAIN thing why I avoid MP3's at all cost. For me it's not the lower quality that matters (bootlegs have a low quality anyway). It's the annoying silence.

I'm not sure if deleting the gaps is enough - simply because the result might be a click between the tracks where the curve changes. Also remember that burning an audioCD requires tracks of specific lengths. If the track doesn't meat certain requirements (it must be divideable by 0.013 sec. or something), a gap is added at the beginning of the track.

From my long experiences & thousands of burnt CD's, I'd say that burning faultless live audioCD's from MP3 files is impossible.

tilomagnet user not visiting Queenzone.com

Bohemian: 290 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 01 Aug 06, 06:20 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Mr. Scully wrote:

Also remember that burning an audioCD requires tracks of specific lengths. If the track doesn't meat certain requirements (it must be divideable by 0.013 sec. or something), a gap is added at the beginning of the track.


This is called a sector boundary error.

pma user not visiting Queenzone.com

Deity: 3462 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 01 Aug 06, 07:59 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Adobe Audition (and other programs surely) will let you select the time display format.

By default that is in DECIMAL, which is not the mode you should work in if you are editing stuff to be burned on CD. Switch from Decimal mode to 'Compact Disc 75fps' and then you'll edit seamlessly for the needs of your target medium.







"I think now I can make love to your anus without making God angry"



Registered: Friday, January 18, 2002



earwig user not visiting Queenzone.com

Bohemian: 273 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 01 Aug 06, 08:05 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Mr Scully (& others), thanks for your reply - at least some people really understand my question! No offence to the others that didn't!
Thinking about it, when I ripped Live Killers to Windows Media Player (encoding to WMA) no silence was introduced. Being bold, how about an experiment in encoding bootlegs to WMAs instead of mp3s in this forum? Mind you, it will piss off the Mac users ;)
Just a thought.

Also, can I say again a MASSIVE thanks to all uploaders! We all really appreciate it!


Dead Daddy Long-legs. I'm still drinking it.
The Real Wizard user not visiting Queenzone.com
The Real Wizard
Deity: 18624 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 01 Aug 06, 09:53 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Mr. Scully wrote:

From my long experiences & thousands of burnt CD's, I'd say that burning faultless live audioCD's from MP3 files is impossible.


It's definitely possible. Removing the mp3 gaps in a wave editor is a trial and error thing. I used to do this years ago, before I knew the difference between mp3 and wav.

Earwig, I wouldn't recommend doing the cross-fade thing. Although it will appear that the gaps are gone, you'll lose a couple seconds between each song.


"The more generous you are with your music, the more it comes back to you." -- Dan Lampinski



http://www.queenlive.ca
Hank H. user not visiting Queenzone.com

Bohemian: 738 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 01 Aug 06, 11:00 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

earwig wrote:


Thinking about it, when I ripped Live Killers to Windows Media Player (encoding to WMA) no silence was introduced. Being bold, how about an experiment in encoding bootlegs to WMAs instead of mp3s in this forum? Mind you, it will piss off the Mac users ;)
Just a thought.


There are software players which support gapless playback for LAME-encoded mp3s. One of them is foobar2000. For winamp there are plugins available which support gapless playback:

MAD http://www.mars.org/home/rob/proj/mpeg/mad-plugin/

or

Otachan
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=18530

foobar alos has a burn-function, so maybe that way you can burn audio-cds from mp3 without gaps, but I can only guess there. At least it can read cue sheets, so you could create a single mp3 file with a cue sheet.

More information:
http://www.pretentiousname.com/mp3players/



"I'm a great believer in actually NOT giving people what they want"

Brian May, 11 March 05
earwig user not visiting Queenzone.com

Bohemian: 273 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 01 Aug 06, 12:54 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

AHA! Thank you for that. I'll look into it


Dead Daddy Long-legs. I'm still drinking it.