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vinny2256_ user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 08 Aug 06, 14:15 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I've just finished reading this and found it ok on the whole with some nice pictures but I have a question or so.

At the back of the book in the blurb it states at the end "For Hutton that day marked the beginning of a living nightmare." I really don't see how it was such a nightmare. I felt that Jim's writings on the relationship between Mary and himself was incomplete and somewhat biased. Why did they just start disliking each other so much? If Freddie wanted to leave Mary the house, why couldnt Jim respect that? What did he expect? And how the hell would he expect to maintain the house if Freddie did give it to him. Mary was much more trustworthy in my opinion and Freddie was aware she had to raise a family so the house wouldve been much better for her. Jim's whole anger thing over Mary icing him out of the house seems like a touch of bitter jealousy to me. My lack of trust towards Jim comes from how he viewed the moods and streams of thoughts of Freddie and those around him. Sometimes he just states things like "Freddie and so and so never talked any more after that". Plus his lack of emotion when he saw Peter Freestone in Freddie's house.

On the whole it lacks emotion and 'thoughts of the time' as well as rationality.

Vin

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Posted: 08 Aug 06, 14:24 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I reckon he was jealous.
He also portrayed his real view on Mary when talking about Freddie's ring.

"Mary could say some clumsy things, but perhaps she said them without thinking. One day she suggested that we should ask Freddie to take off the wedding ring that I'd given to him, as when her mother had died her fingers had swollen badly."

"The ring stays on, Mary," I said.



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Posted: 08 Aug 06, 15:45 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

vinny2256_ wrote:

Plus his lack of emotion when he saw Peter Freestone in Freddie's house.

On the whole it lacks emotion and 'thoughts of the time' as well as rationality.

Vin


Hi, im still debating wether or not to read the book, would you mind elaborating at all on the lack of emotion you mentioned above? I've heard so many things about this book that i'm wondering wether or not its worth going out and looking for.

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Posted: 08 Aug 06, 15:54 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I really don't want to hurt Jim, as I don't like to hurt anyone, but I think he was jealous and the lack of emotions probably comes from their relationship being shallow. I don't think Freddie and Jim shared much in common, Jim is just a simple guy while Freddie was rich, famous, independent, busy, he travelled a lot. They were never equal in anything, and most probably if Freddie didn't get sick their relations would end sooner or later. I think Jim loved Freddie, and what I listed above, plus Freddie's deeper trust and affection towards Mary made Jim feel uncomfortable and jealous. And in the end he only got a proof of it, but it's painful for him to admit it. He was probably angry even at Phoebe and Joe because they often didn't think of him as Freddie's serious love, and maybe Freddie himself showed him the signs of it-manipulating him and treating him like his other two servants. Well, actually I think there is not a lack of emotions, there's a lack of sincerity.


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Posted: 08 Aug 06, 20:23 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

corades wrote:

I really don't want to hurt Jim, as I don't like to hurt anyone, but I think he was jealous and the lack of emotions probably comes from their relationship being shallow. I don't think Freddie and Jim shared much in common, Jim is just a simple guy while Freddie was rich, famous, independent, busy, he travelled a lot. They were never equal in anything, and most probably if Freddie didn't get sick their relations would end sooner or later. I think Jim loved Freddie, and what I listed above, plus Freddie's deeper trust and affection towards Mary made Jim feel uncomfortable and jealous. And in the end he only got a proof of it, but it's painful for him to admit it. He was probably angry even at Phoebe and Joe because they often didn't think of him as Freddie's serious love, and maybe Freddie himself showed him the signs of it-manipulating him and treating him like his other two servants. Well, actually I think there is not a lack of emotions, there's a lack of sincerity.


Oh...that seems like a good way of putting it....sorta painting him like an emotional victim too though.

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Posted: 08 Aug 06, 22:01 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

<font color="Pink">The Show Must Go On wrote:

I have been told that Jim doesn't know the meaning of TMI so I really don't want to read it and scar myself for the rest of my life as I am nly very young


Yeah, I heard that too. I'm afraid I'll buy it and then my mom will want to read it and freak out.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdoo21lvza8

^greatest video ever made



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Posted: 08 Aug 06, 22:28 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

7 seas of Rhye wrote:

<font color="Pink">The Show Must Go On wrote:

I have been told that Jim doesn't know the meaning of TMI so I really don't want to read it and scar myself for the rest of my life as I am nly very young


Yeah, I heard that too. I'm afraid I'll buy it and then my mom will want to read it and freak out.


TMI regarding sex? No worries. I think the most descriptive Jim gets is when he says, "He kissed me passionately."



"The others don't like my interviews. And frankly, I don't care much for theirs." ~ Freddie Mercury



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Posted: 09 Aug 06, 03:25 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I'm debating too whether to buy it or not, cos it's reprinting now.
I've watched an interview with Jim, given years ago. Shallow, as someone put it. Just couldn't get myself to figure how someone complex like Mercury ended up with him, but I guess it was the disease and the fear of ending up alone.
What's TMI? Sorry for the ignorance, not native speaker.
Mary... Freddie's will proved beyond doubt his feelings and thoughts. I understand the jealousy, but if we look back, who was the most constant faithful loving person, regardless of sex, in his life? He really had no choice if you asked me. And the family was out of question, for the house, I mean.

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Posted: 09 Aug 06, 03:47 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

dtucra wrote:


I've watched an interview with Jim, given years ago. Shallow, as someone put it. Just couldn't get myself to figure how someone complex like Mercury ended up with him, but I guess it was the disease and the fear of ending up alone.
QUOTE]




Didnt Jim And Freddie hook up BEFORE Freddie found out he was HIV positive?


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Posted: 09 Aug 06, 04:26 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Yes, but the disease might have been a reason to keep going the relation, and not to end it the minute he got bored. Plus I don't know really, but was Freddie the one that infected Jim? Maybe he felt guilty.

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Posted: 09 Aug 06, 04:38 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

To help shed a little more light on this subject here is a quote from Freddie taken from an interview with journalist and friend, David Wigg in 1987:

“I’m very happy with my relationship at the moment, and I really, honestly couldn’t ask for better. I’ve finally found a niche that I was looking for all my life."

And here is a quote from Jim taken from Lesley-Ann Jones’ biography of Freddie first published in 1997:

“At that stage, Freddie already knew that I was HIV positive. He knew that Joe Fanelli had Aids and would die soon. He had to be realistic. Had he left the bulk of his estate to me, here would it have ended up if I passed away?”

However the above quote does seem a little confusing given that just a few lines earlier he had reportedly said:

“The world still thinks he left everything to Mary. Why did he leave everything to Mary? Well, because he had promised her. A promise was something he never went back on. Pity she didn’t feel the same. I believe Freddie actually rewrote his will in the September or the October before he died. There seem to have been a few versions of the will though…”

It also strikes me as slightly odd that Jim, at that time, told Ms. Jones that he hadn’t actually seen the complete will...

Of course at the end of the day none of us were there so we'll probably never know the exact reasons behind everyone's behaviour in this matter, which is perhaps how it should be. All this speculation we (myself included) are currently engaged in seems slightly disrespectful.


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Posted: 09 Aug 06, 09:07 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote


There are nice passages in the book though. Indeed, some thing you don't wanna know, but some things are worthwile.

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Posted: 09 Aug 06, 10:18 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote


TMI=Too Much Information

Thank tou.



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Posted: 09 Aug 06, 10:23 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Thank You, I meant!
Redoing a will doesn't necessarily mean that essential parts were changed.
And as for the "niche" thing... it's the same man that kept saying for years that everything was alright. Remember that "Do I look like I'm dying to you?!". Well, no, Freddie, not like today, but anytime soon. We can't take for granted everything he said. Pretending he was doing well...

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Posted: 09 Aug 06, 11:42 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I agree it worth reading. It makes you think.
“I’m very happy with my relationship at the moment, and I really, honestly couldn’t ask for better. I’ve finally found a niche that I was looking for all my life."
-Was it a sincere answer, or one given just to sound right in the interview, we can only guess. If you were him, and you had some dignity, would you say to a journalist that you don't have anyone you really love in th end of your life? No one close, dear and right enough to leave even your considrable property? Finely, for what sake would you talk to a journalist at all, if not to spare some dignity, knowing that friends would talk about him afterwards, including that period of life when he was sick and vulnerable,and people, fans, would rather believe in his own words rather then theirs. Like everybody would, he wanted them to remember him in the most good way possible.
Leaving property to a gay man, even if he loved him, would cause a huge scandal at that time, and his family would be ashamed. The family which doesn't need and wouldn't take care of his property right, as they were from another world. Then, what is left, if not to to leave everything to a responsible and caring woman, a real friend, who was faithful to him for all his life? It would satisfy the family and his death would be surrounded with less scandal.
I think to get the whole picture on the stuation you need to listen the opinion of several people and only then to make a conclussion. I made my conclussion according to what Phoebe and the others had said or written; from Marry's not telling much about Freddie and not even mentioning Jim, despite Jim's unpleasant remarks about her in the book, and also from what Jim says years after the book was published. And finely, dids say more than words, isn't it?

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Posted: 09 Aug 06, 14:30 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

corades wrote:

I agree it worth reading. It makes you think.
“I’m very happy with my relationship at the moment, and I really, honestly couldn’t ask for better. I’ve finally found a niche that I was looking for all my life."
-Was it a sincere answer, or one given just to sound right in the interview, we can only guess. If you were him, and you had some dignity, would you say to a journalist that you don't have anyone you really love in th end of your life? No one close, dear and right enough to leave even your considrable property? Finely, for what sake would you talk to a journalist at all, if not to spare some dignity, knowing that friends would talk about him afterwards, including that period of life when he was sick and vulnerable,and people, fans, would rather believe in his own words rather then theirs. Like everybody would, he wanted them to remember him in the most good way possible.


I have no idea what the reasons/motives behind what Freddie said to David Wigg (or indeed anyone else at any other time) were. He may have been completely sincere or he may not. Only one person knew for sure whether what he was saying was the absolute truth or complete fabrication and that was Freddie himself. (Which is also the same for the rest of us). I, like most people, am not a mindreader. All I was trying to point out was that it is ultimately fruitless to speculate about matters that we ourselves are/were not involved in, as we run the risk of getting our 'wires crossed' and arriving at the wrong conclusions, which can be hurtful and injurious to those who were directly involved.


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Posted: 09 Aug 06, 17:41 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I just thought just now, mostly because Im currently re-reading Peter Freestone's book and he said that the only person who was his friend that ever mixed with his family was Mary, because she provided them with some sense of normality?? Maybe a factor of Freddie leaving the bulk of his estate to Mary was because he knew she could deal with his family properly and they wouldnt be nervous or anything, as well as the whole best-friend his whole life, etc...

Whatever the reasoning behind Freddie's decision, it does look as if he made the right choice doesnt it.

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Posted: 09 Aug 06, 18:22 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

WhatMustHeThink wrote:


Whatever the reasoning behind Freddie's decision, it does look as if he made the right choice doesnt it.


Yes. Absolutely. Smart man, I'd say.


"The others don't like my interviews. And frankly, I don't care much for theirs." ~ Freddie Mercury



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Posted: 09 Aug 06, 19:17 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

<font color="red">The Audacity of Kelley wrote:

My word.

People are people. REAL people who actually exist.

We haven't lived their lives. We weren't there. We're not there now.

I haven't read the book, I don't know the guy. But I respect his right to be human.


Well everybody has that right, but people are just wondering and they have a right to wonder also, no matter how pointless it is.

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Posted: 10 Aug 06, 01:43 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

<font color="red">The Audacity of Kelley wrote:

WhatMustHeThink wrote:

<font color="red">The Audacity of Kelley wrote:

My word.

People are people. REAL people who actually exist.

We haven't lived their lives. We weren't there. We're not there now.

I haven't read the book, I don't know the guy. But I respect his right to be human.


Well everybody has that right, but people are just wondering and they have a right to wonder also, no matter how pointless it is.


Oh, I fully agree ! But, I still find the whole thing disturbing (I also find the fact that he wrote a book disturbing, for that matter. But, like I said, I don't know the whole situation, so I'm going to sit back and go on with my life). I appear to be easily disturbed. :/


Well, then are you disturbed that Peter Freestone wrote a book?