Forums > Sharing The Music - Request > Silver Salmon - alternate take

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LozlanTheMage user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 10 Sep 06, 14:52 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

hey all - I have what claims to be a 'second take' of Silver Salmon, though the words and melodies are completely different. It's a terrible recording - the song is about 1:55 in length, and the chorus seems to be 'I've Been Waiting So Long.' Would anyone be able to upload a decent version of this track? I'd also be interested in info on it, since it certainly doesn't sound like Silver Salmon.
Thanks.

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Posted: 11 Sep 06, 12:22 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

There are good recordings indeed. And it is said to be 'Silver Salmon' but I think it's a different song. Maybe it was on the same tape or acetate as Silver Salmon, but wasn't titled as a different track.


"On the first day Pim & Niek created a heavenly occupation. Pim & Niek blessed it and named it 'Loosch'."



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Posted: 11 Sep 06, 18:08 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I also have a theory that Silver Salmon might have been recorded in 1971. Although there are supposed to be acetates of Silver Salmon, saying it's from 1972 or 1973, although I never saw those...


Freddie in the beginning of the song says to the band. "Now, Lets put a bit of Silver Salmon. I know he doesn't know it, but he might just play on"

Of course the 'he' who doesn't know it is John. Since there is not any bass on the track.

If this track was indeed recorded in 1972 it would've been recorded for the Queen debut album.

It's a fact that Silver Salmon was written by Tim Staffel.. in 1972 or 1973 John had been in the band for 2 years. They never played Silver Salmon live, so they probably never practiced it either, since Freddie says that John doesn't know it.

Now we all know that Queen used the studio in downtime for the first album. During the night, and an hour or so in between other (bigger) bands.

So why would they waste their precious and expensive time by fooling around with a song they didn't rehearse (it is very obvious that you rehearse your song very well before going into the studio when you're recording in downtime) and that the bassplayer doesn't even know.

Why would you be fooling around with a song that was written by the singer of one of the pre-queen bands about 3 years ago. That doesn't make sense at all..


Now.. we know that Brian was contacted in early 1971 by a friend of him. He asked Brian if he was interested in having his band try out new equipment in the De Lane Lea studio. And as a 'thanks' they could cut their demo there.

Common belief is that the demo cut was made during the day they were trying out the equipment.

But what if those 2 things happened on a seperate day.


What if one of the engineers just turned on the tape and the band started to fool around a bit with some songs they knew (songs from Pre-bands) and so on. When you have no album to record in a recording studio it makes much more sense to play some songs which haven't been rehearsed.





"On the first day Pim & Niek created a heavenly occupation. Pim & Niek blessed it and named it 'Loosch'."



(Genesis 1:1)
The Real Wizard user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 11 Sep 06, 20:50 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

We had this discussion about a year ago. I believe Silver Salmon was recorded in 1977. My arguments are as follows:

1) Anyone with knowledge of percussion knows they are clearly hearing timbales being played by Roger. The only album where he included timbales in his kit was News Of The World, which as we know was recorded in the summer of 1977. Just listen to his drumming throughout. The sound of his entire kit matches the NOTW album. Someone actually once suggested that they mixed this drum track into the "1971" version of Silver Salmon, which is of course completely unpractical. Some people will do anything to keep the folklore alive.

2) The production/mixing on this track are identical to the song "Feelings Feelings", which is also surely from the News Of The World sessions. Roger also plays the same drum kit.

3) Also consider the fact that Queen, after the bombast and overdubs of ANATO/ADATR, wanted to go back to their roots for a more simple hard rock sound (surely influenced by the punk movement to some degree). So, one of the songs they went back to try out was Silver Salmon. The song matches the direction they wanted NOTW to go into. The reason why John "doesn't know it" is because the song was written before he joined the band, so it's very possible that they never tried out the song under any circumstances after John joined the band - until 1977.

4) And finally, in 1971, Queen had very limited studio time. They were recording at 4am, when David Bowie or whoever had left the studio an hour or two early. They had no time to mess around with a song that John had nothing to do with.

As for the "second version", it is simply a jam in the studio, and it bears no resemblance to Silver Salmon whatsoever. Freddie is just fooling around and sings a few lyrics from Feelings Feelings. His voice is very developed, and again, Roger is playing the same drum kit with the timbales, so this song is clearly also from the NOTW sessions as well. I am thus completely convinced that both of these songs are from 1977.

Someone would better provide some concrete pro-1971 evidence for either of these songs, because I think my pro-77 arguments are pretty strong and convincing. "Biography book X says" and "so-called expert Y says" totally will not cut it. We'll need real evidence if we're going to prove this one otherwise. We need to stop the folklore from determining history.



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L-R-TIGER1994 user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 11 Sep 06, 21:45 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I got a Silver Salmon version that says take 7-master tape,if you want it just let me know,it's 2:36 minutes long


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LozlanTheMage user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 12 Sep 06, 15:42 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I had no idea there was so much debate concerning Silver Salmon's origins! I always assumed it was an out-take from their initial studio sessions (more the fool me).

As for the 'second take' - I thought the lyrics bore a striking resemblance to 'Feelings Feelings' in some segments (though they don't seem to be entirely identical?) Again, if anyone could put up a nice, clean recording of this track I would be terribly grateful. Thanks.

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Posted: 13 Sep 06, 04:04 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

LozlanTheMage wrote:

hey all - I have what claims to be a 'second take' of Silver Salmon, though the words and melodies are completely different. It's a terrible recording - the song is about 1:55 in length, and the chorus seems to be 'I've Been Waiting So Long.' Would anyone be able to upload a decent version of this track? I'd also be interested in info on it, since it certainly doesn't sound like Silver Salmon.
Thanks.


Can anyone share this? Where is Serry? lol


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Posted: 13 Sep 06, 11:14 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

L-R-TIGER1994 wrote:

I got a Silver Salmon version that says take 7-master tape,if you want it just let me know,it's 2:36 minutes long


I would like to hear that version! Could you share or mail it? Thanx!


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Serry... user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 13 Sep 06, 12:51 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote:

The reason why John "doesn't know it" is because the song was written before he joined the band, so it's very possible that they never tried out the song under any circumstances after John joined the band - until 1977.


I'm so high right now, I have no idea what's going on... But Freddie himself could hardly remember lyrics and chords of SYW just 5 years after it was written, recorded and performed for a million times. So saying that Rog, Bri and Fred remember the complete song while John didn't know it at all... I don't know but it's weak argument, IMHO.

I don't know guys... But Seven Seas Of Rhye (Q1) intro in the end of the song....

And by the way - there is a lot of versions of SS in the Hub, just choose your fave one!

FriedChicken user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 14 Sep 06, 04:23 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

And all those versions are the same song/take


"On the first day Pim & Niek created a heavenly occupation. Pim & Niek blessed it and named it 'Loosch'."



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Posted: 15 Sep 06, 07:21 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote:

We had this discussion about a year ago. I believe Silver Salmon was recorded in 1977. My arguments are as follows:

1) Anyone with knowledge of percussion knows they are clearly hearing timbales being played by Roger. The only album where he included timbales in his kit was News Of The World, which as we know was recorded in the summer of 1977. Just listen to his drumming throughout. The sound of his entire kit matches the NOTW album. Someone actually once suggested that they mixed this drum track into the "1971" version of Silver Salmon, which is of course completely unpractical. Some people will do anything to keep the folklore alive.



I remember the very same conversation, and to "back-up" Sir GH (and as a drummer myself) I am all but certain that the kit used on this version of Silver Salmon is the 1977 NOTW kit. It's the damn timbales that give it away - it seems almost too obvious.

Also, just listen to the quality of the drums on the first album... how the hell did the drums on a scrappy mess around of Silver Salmon sound far better than the drum sounds on the actual released album? Sounds hard to believe. Compare the sounds of the drum track on the final master of Great King Rat to that of the Silver Salmon jam/demo.

Also, to Serry, re: your quote about hearing the Seven Seas Of Rhye piano intro on the end of the Silver Salmon track... sorry if this comes across like I'm trying to be a smart-ass (which I don't intend it to) but it seems obvious to me that it is just a part of the next track from whatever source Silver Salmon was taken from and it has just leaked onto the end of the track. To me, it is clear that quality of this "leaked" track is far worse that the quality of Silver Salmon.

Serry... user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 16 Sep 06, 04:33 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

GreatKingSam wrote:


Also, to Serry, re: your quote about hearing the Seven Seas Of Rhye piano intro on the end of the Silver Salmon track... sorry if this comes across like I'm trying to be a smart-ass (which I don't intend it to) but it seems obvious to me that it is just a part of the next track from whatever source Silver Salmon was taken from and it has just leaked onto the end of the track.


Yes... Silver Salmon and SSOR were on the same tape... That was my innuendo...

LozlanTheMage user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 16 Sep 06, 14:51 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

so, Serry (or anyone)...could you see fit to upload the alternate take? I would really, really appreciate it (although I don't normally indulge in begging). if someone would rather trade I have a limited amount of rarities, but nothing that I suppose hasn't been posted here on at least a dozen occasions. Please, this is basically all I need to complete my collection of easy-to-find (or perhaps not so-easy-to-find) rarities.
In pathetic conclusion: Please?

Serry... user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 16 Sep 06, 15:36 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Well... Okay... I'm not sure if this quality will be enough good for you. And I'd agree with Niek - I'm afraid it has nothing to do 'Silver Salmon'...

http://rapidshare.de/files/33358045/ss2_serry.mp3.html

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Posted: 16 Sep 06, 23:32 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Thanks Serry - your version is 21 seconds longer than what I had.


Roger: I like it. If you don't. Sod you!



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Posted: 17 Sep 06, 19:46 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

As far as I know there are two silver salmon with VERY noticiable different lyrics.


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LozlanTheMage user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 18 Sep 06, 01:08 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Thanks for posting, Serry. This is actually the version I already had - but no matter. It looks like everybody else is having fun with it : ) And the recording's not that bad, actually...

The Real Wizard user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 18 Sep 06, 14:32 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Serry... wrote:

I'm so high right now, I have no idea what's going on... But Freddie himself could hardly remember lyrics and chords of SYW just 5 years after it was written, recorded and performed for a million times. So saying that Rog, Bri and Fred remember the complete song while John didn't know it at all... I don't know but it's weak argument, IMHO.


In 1977, Freddie could remember the lyrics to a 5-year-old song. By 1982 however (which is the one-off Spread Your Wings you mentioned), Freddie had done a hell of a lot of drugs, and that surely had an effect on his memory.

The folklore of Silver Salmon points to 1971, and the evidence points to 1977. Is there some way we could get more people to see this? I wish we could debate this at QOL, but most people there don't believe in bootlegs.

I don't know guys... But Seven Seas Of Rhye (Q1) intro in the end of the song....


Anything can be mixed into anything. We're in the digital age now.



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Rick user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 18 Sep 06, 16:24 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Freddie could also be joking that he didn't knew the words/chords of Spread Your Wings.


John: "It's the one thing I wish I could do - sing."