Forums > Queen - Serious Discussion > Question regarding songwriters?

forum rss feed
Author

tricolours user not visiting Queenzone.com

Be Gentle, I'm a newbie: 12 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 10 Oct 06, 04:29 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I recall previously someone posting a list of the individual songwriters for all tracks credited just 'Queen', also the very early albums. Would someone please be able to post this list? - thanking you.





sjh
Sebastian user not visiting Queenzone.com
Sebastian
Deity: 6328 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 10 Oct 06, 07:56 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

STONE COLD CRAZY: Apparently it's from Wreckage then it's Freddie's. God knows why is it credited to all four, especially considering it was part of the live set over a year before John joined...

HANGMAN: Lyrics by Freddie, music by Brian. This is hence the first collaboration between two Queen members.

UNDER PRESSURE: Mostly Freddie although they all contributed. Freddie and David Bowie dominate both lyrics and melody.

SOUL BROTHER: Freddie. He wrote it about Brian, and it took him about 15 minutes.

ONE VISION: Lyrics are by Roger ("one ... one ..." as in 'A Kind Of Magic'), music is Roger's and Brian's. Freddie was more a producer and arranger than an actual co-writer IMO.

PARTY: Freddie started it, then he worked on it with Brian and John.

KASHOGGI'S: It hasn't been confirmed officially. Fan Club said it's Fred but Fan Club can say any shite... David Richards said that all four contributed to the lyrics, but didn't clear up the music.

THE MIRACLE: Freddie, although they all contributed to the lyrics. Still it's his song, and you can easily notice his fingerprint. IMO it must have been influenced by 'I Am The Walrus'.

I WANT IT ALL: Brian. In fact recent releases credit it just to him.

INVISIBLE MAN: Roger. He wrote it about a book he was reading, after hearing the beat in his head. Arranged by all four.

A NEW LIFE IS BORN: Freddie. IMO it must have been for 'Barcelona' since the style suits that.

BREAKTHRU: Roger. The others suggested the key change, but they were co-arrangers, not co-writers.

RAIN MUST FALL: Music by John, lyrics by Freddie.

SCANDAL: Brian. I suspect Fred could have altered some of the melody, although probably not much more than he'd do for any other track.

MY BABY DOES ME: Mostly Freddie although John helped him putting it together.

WAS IT ALL WORTH IT: Mostly Freddie although they all contributed to the lyrics. Note that the orchestral interlude quotes several Fred early pieces: Stone Cold Crazy, Great King Rat, Death On Two Legs and partly Masterstroke.

HANG ON IN THERE: Freddie. It's the joint of two separate tracks, but you can notice how Fred conducted the jam too!

STEALIN': Freddie. He rang Mack up while doing this one and told him how he was thankful for the Munich era, it'd influenced him for this one.

HIJACK MY HEART: Roger. Similar to 'Sheer Heart Attack' in terms of harmony.

INNUENDO: It's a jigzaw puzzle: the main section's got music by Freddie (after an initial idea by the other three), lyrics started off by Freddie and finished by Roger, melody by Freddie. The interlude was added by Freddie.

SLIGHTLY MAD: Freddie. Some lyrics were suggested by Peter Straker.

HEADLONG: Brian, although apparently the four of them made several modifications once he decided to give it away to Queen instead of using it for a solo album.

I CAN'T LIVE WITH YOU: Brian. He'd got it for his solo album but then decided to give it to the band.

DON'T TRY SO HARD: Freddie. Note that the synth-cello break foreshadows the riff of Britney Spear's 'Toxic' :-)

RIDE THE WILD WIND: Roger. One of my favourites of his.

DELILAH: Freddie. It's more complicated than it seems.

ALL GOD'S PEOPLE: Freddie and Mike Moran. I'd love to know more about this songwriting partnership: how much did Mike contribute to lyrics, for instance...

THESE ARE THE DAYS OF OUR LIVES: Roger. You can spot many harmonic cross-references. He was a very instinctive but very good songwriter!

THE HITMAN: Freddie wrote the riff (which in this case represents 90% of the music). Brian changed the key and some of the notes to make it playable on guitar. But then again, Brian's a co-arranger (with John who modified the structure), not a co-writer, in the same vein that Fred's an arranger (not co-writer) in 'Radio Ga Ga' and 'A Kind Of Magic' and George Martin's an arranger and not co-writer in 'Yesterday', 'Strawberry Fields', etc.

BIJOU: Mostly Freddie since he wrote the


John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
Bohardy user not visiting Queenzone.com

Deity: 2447 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 10 Oct 06, 17:28 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Seb, have you got any quotes that support the idea that the lyrics to Rain Must Fall are Freddie's? Those twee lyrics about everyday life just seem absolutely typical of John, à la WNY, IYCBT, IOSD and MLHBS.

Also, what's the lyrical/musical split in FWBF? Again, those lyrics sound like John's uncultured style to me, whilst the progression is more akin to typical Freddie.


Gullibility and credulity are considered undesirable qualities in every department of human life -- except religion.
FriedChicken user not visiting Queenzone.com

Deity: 10641 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 10 Oct 06, 18:38 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

"THE MIRACLE: IMO it must have been influenced by 'I Am The Walrus'."

Why on earth is that?


"On the first day Pim & Niek created a heavenly occupation. Pim & Niek blessed it and named it 'Loosch'."



(Genesis 1:1)
Dan C. user not visiting Queenzone.com
Dan C.
Royalty: 1544 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 10 Oct 06, 19:21 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

C-c-coo coo ca choo?


"The tri-tone is the Devil's interval, and he demands resolution." - Richard Lloyd
mircal user not visiting Queenzone.com

Bohemian: 555 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 10 Oct 06, 20:02 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Hey Fried Chicken!!!!!

You are the first perosn who has said that i agree, i always though that it did soundf the same,,, untill the songs makes its own.

And as for you dont fool me,,, wasnt that written back in the hot space days???? Im sur eit was.

mircal user not visiting Queenzone.com

Bohemian: 555 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 10 Oct 06, 20:03 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Hey Chicken, sorry i missed that you go that info from the above list... I am the walrus is a song by the beatles... ist shares a simular beat at the start..

FriedChicken user not visiting Queenzone.com

Deity: 10641 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 10 Oct 06, 20:59 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I know the song I am the Walrus, but I can't find any similarities between those two songs..

And even if there were any. I doubt it was intentional.


"On the first day Pim & Niek created a heavenly occupation. Pim & Niek blessed it and named it 'Loosch'."



(Genesis 1:1)
Donna13 user not visiting Queenzone.com

Royalty: 1683 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 10 Oct 06, 21:09 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

FriedChicken<br><font size=1>The Almighty</font> wrote:

I know the song I am the Walrus, but I can't find any similarities between those two songs..

And even if there were any. I doubt it was intentional.


I think they are a bit similar. It might have been intentional (maybe somebody knows) since Freddie was a fan.

Sebastian user not visiting Queenzone.com
Sebastian
Deity: 6328 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 10 Oct 06, 22:36 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

> Those twee lyrics about everyday life just seem absolutely typical of John, à la WNY, IYCBT, IOSD and MLHBS.

I hadn't thought about that, but it does make sense. The quote I used for that conclusion came from David Richards, but to be fair it was translated from Japanese (and I'm far from being an expert), and of course it had to be translated from English to Jap before by somebody else. So maybe the true meaning was lost in translation(s)? I mean, fifteen years of songwriting evidence are a stronger argument than a (n inexact) quote.

> Also, what's the lyrical/musical split in FWBF? Again, those lyrics sound like John's uncultured style to me, whilst the progression is more akin to typical Freddie.

I've always wondered about that too, but the chords are generic enough to be from anyone of the four. Maybe what Phoebe said it's right and the joint credit is because John insisted Fred's input should be acknowledged? Somehow I find FWBF is melodically similar to MLHBS.

> And as for you dont fool me,,, wasnt that written back in the hot space days???? Im sur eit was.

It wasn't. 'You Don't Fool Me' is post-Innuendo. The reason many believe it came from '81-'82 is because they misunderstood the GHIII liner notes ... it "harks back to the Hot Space days" (or something like that), but it doesn't mean or imply it was written back then. Likewise 'Seaside Rendezvous' "harks back" to the 1920s but it doesn't mean Freddie wrote it two decades before being born.

> I can't find any similarities between those two songs...

Verse using three-bar phrases, the Eb > Db > Cb progression ... of course the songs are very different in every other aspect but in a more profound level they share some things.

> And even if there were any. I doubt it was intentional.

Who knows ... having a verse with three-bar phrases is not the kind of thing you'd usually do instinctively, perhaps Freddie deliberately wanted it that way ... and Lennon COULD have been an influence; Beatles were their Bible after all...


John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
zaiga user not visiting Queenzone.com

Bohemian: 385 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 11 Oct 06, 03:20 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sebastian wrote:


> Also, what's the lyrical/musical split in FWBF? Again, those lyrics sound like John's uncultured style to me, whilst the progression is more akin to typical Freddie.

I've always wondered about that too, but the chords are generic enough to be from anyone of the four. Maybe what Phoebe said it's right and the joint credit is because John insisted Fred's input should be acknowledged? Somehow I find FWBF is melodically similar to MLHBS.


Brian May has talked about "Friends Will Be Friends" on his soapbox: http://www.brianmay.com/brian/brianssb/brianssbjul06.html . He talks about it as if it were a 100%Freddie composition, at least lyrically. Perhaps John had input musically then?


Flick of the wrist
zaiga user not visiting Queenzone.com

Bohemian: 385 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 11 Oct 06, 03:24 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sebastian wrote:

> Those twee lyrics about everyday life just seem absolutely typical of John, à la WNY, IYCBT, IOSD and MLHBS.

I hadn't thought about that, but it does make sense. The quote I used for that conclusion came from David Richards, but to be fair it was translated from Japanese (and I'm far from being an expert), and of course it had to be translated from English to Jap before by somebody else. So maybe the true meaning was lost in translation(s)? I mean, fifteen years of songwriting evidence are a stronger argument than a (n inexact) quote.


Again, Brain has commented a snippet about this song on his soapbox: http://www.brianmay.com/brian/letters/letterssep04.html (search for "Rain Must Fall"). When asked about the harmony and structure of the song he answers that he doesn't know and it is very much a "Deacon-area" which implies that, at least musically, "Rain Must Fall" is a Deacon song.


Flick of the wrist
Sebastian user not visiting Queenzone.com
Sebastian
Deity: 6328 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 11 Oct 06, 07:01 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Very interesting comments. So Brian had the idea of "right till the end friends will be friends", it was indeed very nice.

Yes I knew the 'Rain Must Fall' comment, but it didn't clear up the lyrics. But if we consider 'Miracle' to be Freddie's in spite of the input others had, and if we consider 'Show Must Go On' Brian's, then it's just fair to regard 'Rain Must Fall' as Deacon's especially if Bohardy's point is right.


John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
August R. user not visiting Queenzone.com

Bohemian: 561 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 11 Oct 06, 13:28 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sebastian wrote:


UNDER PRESSURE: Mostly Freddie although they all contributed. Freddie and David Bowie dominate both lyrics and melody.


Just one question about UP. As we all know the origins of UP are heard in a demo called Feel Like. I read in Wikipedia that Fell Like was Roger's song (and yes, I know there's a lot of bullshit in Wikipedia, but I've found that it's quite accurate on Queen-related stuff). Anyway, if that's correct, then Roger really deserves a co-credit for Under Pressure 'cos the chord progression of UP is already there on the demo.


Sebastian user not visiting Queenzone.com
Sebastian
Deity: 6328 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 11 Oct 06, 14:14 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I've always wondered why people say Feel Like is a demo of Under Pressure - lyrics are different, melody is different, they only share a chord progression but it doesn't mean anything. There are scores of songs by all sorts of artists sharing progressions and it doesn't mean that, say, Pachelbell's 'Canon In D' is a demo of 'Basket Case', or 'Wonderwall' is a demo of 'Boulevard of Broken Dreams'.

Likewise, the fact that 'Liar' and 'Lover' share ONE riff doesn't mean 'Lover' is an early version of 'Liar'.

Of course everybody's entitled to their own opinion, but personally I think John Deacon's interviews in Japan '82 and France '84 are a stronger argument than what some random bloke wrote in Wikipedia.


John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
The Real Wizard user not visiting Queenzone.com
The Real Wizard
Deity: 18639 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 11 Oct 06, 15:03 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sebastian wrote:

Of course everybody's entitled to their own opinion, but personally I think John Deacon's interviews in Japan '82 and France '84 are a stronger argument than what some random bloke wrote in Wikipedia.


I've never heard of these interviews... have they been available here before?


"The more generous you are with your music, the more it comes back to you." -- Dan Lampinski



http://www.queenlive.ca
JeroenG user not visiting Queenzone.com

Bohemian: 334 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 11 Oct 06, 19:27 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I'd like to add that I think that the second part of STEALIN and The Cross's IN CHARGE OF MY HEART share very much similarity.
As STEALIN is stated in this topic as being written by Freddie and IN CHARGE OF MY HEART is stated on the sleeve as being written by Roger this could mean a few things.

IN CHARGE OF MY HEART indeed wás written by Roger, which means that the basis of the second part of STEALIN was written by Roger too.
Or the second part of STEALIN indeed wás written by Freddie, which means that the basis of IN CHARGE OF MY HEART is written by Freddie too, not by Roger.

Note that I'm not saying that these two songs are the same song, but they share similarities IMO. You could say that 2nd part of STEALIN contains some early ideas which later were used in the song IN CHARGE OF MY HEART.
If indeed STEALIN was completely written by Freddie, it could mean that Roger used parts and ideas of the second half to make a new song IN CHARGE OF MY HEART, changing it enough to take credit for 'writing it'.

mircal user not visiting Queenzone.com

Bohemian: 555 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 11 Oct 06, 20:07 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I am the warlus, The Mirical.

The part that sounds the same..

In the part were its builds up to john saying... i am he as you are he as... so forth,, its about the first 5-10sec before that kicks in, does the beat sound the same when fred sings test tube babys being born.... i might of a words or what, i dont have the songs here to give specifics, but its only a breif moment.

August R. user not visiting Queenzone.com

Bohemian: 561 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 12 Oct 06, 04:07 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sebastian wrote:

I've always wondered why people say Feel Like is a demo of Under Pressure - lyrics are different, melody is different, they only share a chord progression but it doesn't mean anything. There are scores of songs by all sorts of artists sharing progressions and it doesn't mean that, say, Pachelbell's 'Canon In D' is a demo of 'Basket Case', or 'Wonderwall' is a demo of 'Boulevard of Broken Dreams'.

Likewise, the fact that 'Liar' and 'Lover' share ONE riff doesn't mean 'Lover' is an early version of 'Liar'.

Of course everybody's entitled to their own opinion, but personally I think John Deacon's interviews in Japan '82 and France '84 are a stronger argument than what some random bloke wrote in Wikipedia.


I think it's clear that in Feel Like we hear the original idea that would involve into UP. When I first heard the demo, I didn't know what to expect, but my immediate reaction was, "Hey, this is Under Pressure!" The Chords are the same, the melody different but shares some similarities, also the piano riff is kind of, in the air, if you know what I mean.

I know there are lots of songs sharing the same chord progression, but I think your examples are not adequate here. I think, it's a different thing when a band is jamming with a chord progression, and some months later they release a single with that same chord progression and rhythm, don't you?

So, I think the main question is, who wrote Feel Like. I've always thought it was Freddie's (probably because of the piano thing). But it could have been Roger as well (hell, it could have been anybody, the chords aren't that complex:).

But what did John say in those interviews? I don't think I've heard/read them. (and yes, I, too, think that John is more reliable source than some bloke in Wikipedia:)

Sebastian user not visiting Queenzone.com
Sebastian
Deity: 6328 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 13 Oct 06, 09:07 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

"Roger, Freddie and David had been friends for a long time, and he just came in to the studio we were in and we did a jam session. The song itself is mainly David's and Freddie's idea. But we were all included in the credits. It was an interesting experience, because David wrote the bass-line, he owes the responsibility for it. He's a talented man, and that song is one of those that I really like" - JOHN DEACON, 'Viva Rock' Japanese Magazine, December 1982, interview made by Mizuno Kumiko


"On the album, the track was credited to Bowie and Queen but in fact it was essentially Freddie although all contributed. The bass line came from David, it took me a certain time to learn it. But there was also a strong influence from Brian for the middle part. It was an interesting experience which we might do repeat if we have a chance with David and other people" - JOHN DEACON, interview by Guido Harari published on the article 'Petite Reine' in 1984 in France.


John hated HS. Fred's fave singer was not PR. Roger didn't compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.