Forums > Personal > Gerald Ford dies.

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Carol! the Musical user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 26 Dec 06, 23:54 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I just saw this on TV a minute ago.. I don't believe any articles on it have been made yet.

EDIT: Here... http://www.cnn.com/


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Posted: 26 Dec 06, 23:57 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I bet he was delicious.


(seriously, that's too bad.)

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Posted: 27 Dec 06, 00:15 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

http://www.west-wind.com/wconnect/photoalbum/doh.wav

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Posted: 27 Dec 06, 00:26 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Famous dead people come in 3s, you know. WHO WILL BE NEXT??!


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Posted: 27 Dec 06, 00:39 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Should be Tammy Faye next. She's down to 68 pounds with cancer according to her son. :(

RIP Mr. Ford. The pall bearers should drop his casket, just for old times sake ;)

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Posted: 27 Dec 06, 02:29 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

*chortle* I'll always remember him as Homer's neighbour.

I can't believe there's that much of an age gap between Ford and Bush Snr.


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Posted: 27 Dec 06, 08:42 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Ford, the guy nobody voted for. It was certainly a shock for the American people when he became president. Undoubtedly, that counted for something in his defeat by Jimmy Peanut.

Not one of the major presidents here, he didn't do very much except clean up Nixon's shit (Vietnam), and start some token 'inflation-battles'. Oh, and he pardoned Nixon, which was was highly injust.


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Posted: 27 Dec 06, 09:01 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Who would have thought that Bush Sr. could be this funny...

http://news.yahoo.com/photos/ss/1756/im:/061227/480/ny14312270555


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Posted: 27 Dec 06, 10:56 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Bubbles Puddifoot wrote:

RIP Mr. Ford. The pall bearers should drop his casket, just for old times sake ;)


Hahahaha! Second best laugh today.



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Posted: 27 Dec 06, 13:52 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The President that no-one voted for. R.I.P.

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Posted: 27 Dec 06, 14:18 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

<font color=#FFFFFF> The Invisible Man wrote:

Sadly, James Brown passed away Christmas day...I'm not kidding.


No one said you were, considering the thread about it is still on the front page.

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Posted: 27 Dec 06, 14:36 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Just a question for Caspar....why was it unjust to pardon Nixon? Granted the man was the worst president in history (until now, that is) and many wanted him persecuted. But he recognized then what many now recognize with the benefit of hindsight....the pardon was needed to help the country move on. The country was already going through a constitutional crisis (could he even be president if he was never elected?) and was in the middle of the recession and the Vietnam mess...the last thing the country needed on top of all of that shit was a long and drawn out trial that would accomplish nothing but futher undermine the faith in government that most people already had after Watergate. He recognized the need to put the past in the past and move on to get started solving the issues that needed to be solved, even though he didn't get time to solve them. Actually I think it was a courageous decision, because he knew it would be very unpopular and could (and indeed did) cost him the re-election campaign two years later.
And this has been aboslutely nuts, to tell you the truth. I'm at my parents house, which is 45 minutes north of Grand Rapids, where he was born and raised. They are going to bury him in GR, in the museum he dedicated and has named after him. Boy I'm glad I'm not going to be anywhere near GR that day....it will be insanity down there, he is extremely well beloved in this area (he was the congressional rep, and was re-elected 13 times in a row by HUGE margins)


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Posted: 27 Dec 06, 14:40 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Why I find it injust, is because it gives off a clear signal, namely: if a president commits a crime, and he resigns, he gets off, or, in other words: presidency offers immunity.

Any other person would have been persecuted to the maximum extent of the law, and pardoning Nixon gives off the signal that he was somehow more than 'mere mortals', which is a very bad thing, especially since presidents after him have shown to increasingly take power into their own hands (most recently Bush with his disgusting Bolton-scam), passing by parliament.


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Posted: 27 Dec 06, 16:20 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

<b><font color = "crimson"> ThomasQuinn wrote:

Why I find it injust, is because it gives off a clear signal, namely: if a president commits a crime, and he resigns, he gets off, or, in other words: presidency offers immunity.

Any other person would have been persecuted to the maximum extent of the law, and pardoning Nixon gives off the signal that he was somehow more than 'mere mortals', which is a very bad thing, especially since presidents after him have shown to increasingly take power into their own hands (most recently Bush with his disgusting Bolton-scam), passing by parliament.


First off, the US doesn't have a parliament, but I realize you probably meant to say Congress, so I'll let that one slide.
Second, EVERY President ever in office has committed crimes they would have been persecuted for if they weren't the president, so it's not like there Nixon is a major exception. Do you think any of the Presidents since Nixon will be brought up on charges against them? Clinton won't ever get charged in the world court for the stuff he's done (Whitewater Scandal), and I guarantee you Bush Jr. won't get brought up on charges either. Hell, Roosevelt never got brought to trial for the atomic bomb over Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
Operating under the assumption that Justice is always fair and blind is a nice concept, and isn't neccessarily a bad goal. But lets face reality here...Justice can be bought, has been bought, will continue to be bought and isn't anywhere near blind. What Ford did in pardoning Nixon isn't nearly as damaging to anyone as what Bush is doing now, or what Clinton did when he was in office (there were a lot of shady dealings going on there that most people don't like to acknowledge). At least Ford's pardon didn't kill anyone, and I don't think it caused any major disruptions in American's views of politics, since the views were already at their most jaded at that time, and have only become more jaded since with the acts of succeeding Presidents. You may not agree with his decision, that's fine, you don't have to, but on the damaging scale to America from 1-10, I'd say this pardon barely rates at all.
Thirdly, the trend towards the executive branch becoming more powerful isn't reliant on Nixon's pardon...that was in the works long before Nixon came into office, and has more to do with shifting perceptions of what the executive branch should be and what it needs to respond to than on "Well, we did this in the past, so let's push the envelope." (For example, see the war against communism and the "domino theory" used by Kennedy and his predecessors) I'd even say terrorism (a relatively recent phenomenon in it's present form, which coincidently started in the 1970's) has more to do with expanding executive power than pardoning criminals. There is nothing more convienient in a power grab than to have an enemy you have to fight who is deadly, but who you can't see, and we can't tell you about or they'll get us all, so you just have to trust us to handle the situation. Besides, what more harm could Nixon have done after he resigned in disgrace? Nothing.


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Posted: 27 Dec 06, 17:50 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Again 'dies'? I thought he was dead already. There is a difference between 'dies' and 'died' you know.

Or does my English grammar suck?




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Posted: 27 Dec 06, 18:36 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

<b><font color = "crimson"> ThomasQuinn wrote:

Why I find it injust, is because it gives off a clear signal, namely: if a president commits a crime, and he resigns, he gets off, or, in other words: presidency offers immunity.

Any other person would have been persecuted to the maximum extent of the law, and pardoning Nixon gives off the signal that he was somehow more than 'mere mortals', which is a very bad thing, especially since presidents after him have shown to increasingly take power into their own hands (most recently Bush with his disgusting Bolton-scam), passing by parliament.


What is your point? Alot of criminals get off scot free everyday. hmmm, Parliament? lol. 'Mere Mortals'? lol. Morals maybe?


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Posted: 27 Dec 06, 20:41 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

"EVERY President ever in office has committed crimes they would have been persecuted for if they weren't the president, so it's not like there Nixon is a major exception."

Uhh.... that doesn't make it better. Doesn't that mean they should *all* be prosecuted? No wonder they all get away with it! :)

But seriously... the excuse for pardoning Nixon was actually one of the better ones thats been offered up in politics, I feel. Too true, that lengthy trials are just one of many things that people use to distract 'people' from real issues. But that's just not good enough when one is dealing with a guy like Nixon. I'm just wondering, exactly how much of a criminal should a President be before he gets prosecuted?

And shit; if Ford was worried about 'distracting' the country with a lengthy trial, why didn't they just put something else on the tube?? Didn't they have complete control of the media like they do now? :P

Politicians should take a severe paycut, because at the moment they're all in it for the wrong reasons. Things like Nixon's full pardon just make it like a gentlemen's club with very little grasp of what is right and wrong.


"Your not funny, your not a good musician, theres a difference between being funny and being an idiot, you obviously being the latter" - Dave R Fuller
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Posted: 27 Dec 06, 20:42 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

PS Earlier I said famous people die in 3s... you know, the 3rd one may well be Saddam Hussein. If he gets hanged as soon as the news channels are boasting.


"Your not funny, your not a good musician, theres a difference between being funny and being an idiot, you obviously being the latter" - Dave R Fuller
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Posted: 27 Dec 06, 20:46 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Danny1 wrote:

Thanks for posting this topic Dorian. After all the jokes at Mr.Fords expense, i think we should remember that he was awarded the navy cross for his brave acts during W.W.2 and that he was a outstanding football player at the university of Michigan.


Fighting at World War II I can understand...

Outstanding football player, who gives a shit.


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Posted: 27 Dec 06, 22:10 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

My point, Zebonka, was that things were headed in that direction LONG before the pardon of Nixon. Politics has been a gentlemen's club since the founding of the country....none of the "founding fathers" or first members of the government on any level were ordinary farmers, merchants or settlers (despite what the history books like to make you think...that's call romanticizing history, and too often unfortunately passes for real history). They were all rich white men with the disposible income and time to devote to politics and governing the country. It started out as a gentlemen's club, so why in the world would time have changed that? Especially now that you have to have so much money to be able to mount a campaign to get you there because media is making everything so expensive. The pardon of Nixon may be symptomatic of the problem, but it didn't cause the problem and, to be honest, it was a pretty mild symptom of the problem. Other scandals, like Enron, Haliburton and the Abramhoff Lobbying Scandal, not to mention anything involving the War on Terror, are much worse than pardoning Nixon was.
Besides, the point in the long and drawn out trial would have been what? He was already out of office, publicly disgraced and humiliated, and would never be able to hold even a township clerk position ever again. His career and life were over, Ford knew that. All the trial would be doing is essentially kicking a dead horse, which would have relieved tensions at the moment, but would have distracted the country and the government from bigger issues (Vietnam and the Recession) and made things worse in the long run. Besides, they were in shallow water anyway with whether Ford could even be president. Until they knew for sure that he could be without challenge, running a trial would have been dangerous, since no one knew who the top man should be, or whether they could even constitutionally have a trial. Criminal trial, yes, but not a Presidential Misconduct trial, because Congress couldn't be sure who had the authority to authorize such a trial, since they didn't know for sure if the guy in the Oval Office could even be there. So a Presidential Misconduct trial could never have happened anyway. The only thing there could have been was a criminal trial, and Ford recognized that not only would it have served basically no purpose (Nixon had already been punished, and would continue to be punished for the rest of his life with his tarnished personal reputation and inability to hold another position in what he lived for...Politics) but that it would garner so much attention that it could only further harm the government and the office of the Presidency, which at that time needed to win back the people's trust so it could deal with the bigger storm clouds in the sky. Besides, you think Nixon could have gotten a fair trial anywhere in the world anyway? Mercy is not always a bad thing, as long as it's not overused.


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