Forums > Personal > The effects of Dubya's war

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The Real Wizard user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 22 Mar 07, 03:50 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2007/03/20/iraqrefugees.html

How heartbreaking. The US invasion has made things far, far worse than it ever was.

Your thoughts?



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Posted: 22 Mar 07, 04:34 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

heh heh heh, Dubya...:]


Evil will always triumph 'cause good is dumb.
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Posted: 22 Mar 07, 08:30 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I don't honestly see how this can surprise anyone. Anyone with half of a brain cell would see this coming (thus probably the problem with the administration not seeing it).
To be honest, I'm not sure what's sadder. It's obvious that the Bush Administration didn't take these things into the mix when they were counting up the costs of such an invasion; they appear to be very short sighted, as they also managed to overlook post war care for the wounded veterans who were returning from the war. The fact that no one...not ONE PERSON in the entire administration thought about long term effects makes me very nervous, as was unfortunately what I thought would happen right from the day that Bush announced he was running back in 1999. He doesn't have the gift of foresight, but I was hoping that at least ONE person in the administration would.
What's almost sadder is that Bush knows that the US is suffering a crisis of image right now, especially with Arabs and Iraqis. If his goal is seriously to promote democracy and win the people over to our side (an issue I take serious issues with to begin with) then this is the perfect opportunity to move in our troops and our aid and help these governments and these refugees out of their dire circumstances. However, the US government won't do this, consequences be damned, because Jordan and Syria are part of the terrorist supporting "Axis of Evil". Ideology has gotten in the way of clear thinking, this is obvious. Leaving all of these refugees to their own devices and the winds of fate is only going to breed more anti-US sentiment and more terrorism in the future, and then the members of the administration will sit around, scratching their heads and wondering where all these new terrorists come from and why the hate us so much.
And the saddest part of all? Because of the bureaucracy involved in the government, even when we elect someone new who decides the next day to send aid, it will take months to get there. By then, it will be far too late. The damage has already been done.



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Posted: 22 Mar 07, 09:03 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

It's a shame that the Bush regime turned the former role model of a democracy into a tyranny where international law is not respected, war crimes and crimes against humanity are common and torture a daily business.

It's an even greater shame that not only the people of the USA but the whole Western world watches this ongoing killing in Iraq with an unbelievable indifference. We are all guilty of watching and ignoring the daily mudering in Iraq and the torturing and illegal imprisonment of people in Guantanamo Bay.

Benjamin Ferencz, former prosecutor of the Nazis in the Nuernberg trials said on German TV that Guantanamo will forever be linked with the USA as is Ausschwitz with Germany. He called Bush, Rumsfeld and others war criminals who must be held accountable for their actions. Visit his website, he is one voice of reason to be listened to. He said that even the Nazis had a fair triial and that the rule of law can never be given up or we are no better than Saddam Hussein.

Michael Ratner from the Center for Constitutional Rights in New York has filed charges against Rumsfeld, Alberto Gonzales, George Tenet and a dozen of other high profile US administration and miltary officials for committing war crimes and crimes against humanity to the Federal Public Prosecutor in Germany. In Germany law requires that all crimes against humanity have to be prosecuted, no matter who committed them and where. Fat chance that anything comes out of it but at least they cannot look away anymore.

We all can take action and raise our voices against the war in Iraq and the concentration camp in Guantanamo Bay.

- outside the USA write a letter or email to your US embassy and demand that the war crimes have to end. Tell them you expect the USA to return to the rule of law and to stop violating international law. Tell them you expect the USA to work on a fair solution for Iraq with the help of all countries who can actually help. Demand that Guantanamo is closed. Tell your friends to do the same

- if you are a US citizen - email the President of the United States. Tell him you do not approve of the violations of Human Rights and demand that international law is being observed again. Tell him you want Guantanamo closed. Tell him you expect that the administration makes a genuine effort to find peace in Iraq with the help of the UN and all countries who can help. Tell your friends to do the same and to encourage their own friends to do the same. Phone your Congress representaive and tell him the same.

For help and guidance visit the Amnesty International website - current actions USA.






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Posted: 22 Mar 07, 09:15 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

CMU HistoryGirl wrote:

The fact that no one...not ONE PERSON in the entire administration thought about long term effects makes me very nervous, as was unfortunately what I thought would happen right from the day that Bush announced he was running back in 1999.


Colin Powell was the only one with brains in that administration, and the only one who strongly adviced against the long term effects of invading Iraq.

Turns out to be that within the Bush administration you're either part of their narrow minded and extremist mentality, or they'll find a way for you to quit or be forced to resign.


[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Brandon wrote: [/QUOTENAME]... and now the "best you can offer is Mr. Jingles? HA! He's... just pathetic.[/QUOTE]
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Posted: 22 Mar 07, 11:37 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Mr.Jingles wrote:

CMU HistoryGirl wrote:

The fact that no one...not ONE PERSON in the entire administration thought about long term effects makes me very nervous, as was unfortunately what I thought would happen right from the day that Bush announced he was running back in 1999.


Colin Powell was the only one with brains in that administration, and the only one who strongly adviced against the long term effects of invading Iraq.

Turns out to be that within the Bush administration you're either part of their narrow minded and extremist mentality, or they'll find a way for you to quit or be forced to resign.


I couldn't agree with you more. The politics in the US are totally fucked, everywhere from DC, to local politics even. Everything in the US is messed up lately. :-/

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Posted: 22 Mar 07, 12:28 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

YourValentine wrote:

It's a shame that the Bush regime turned the former role model of a democracy into a tyranny where international law is not respected, war crimes and crimes against humanity are common and torture a daily business.

It's an even greater shame that not only the people of the USA but the whole Western world watches this ongoing killing in Iraq with an unbelievable indifference. We are all guilty of watching and ignoring the daily mudering in Iraq and the torturing and illegal imprisonment of people in Guantanamo Bay.

Benjamin Ferencz, former prosecutor of the Nazis in the Nuernberg trials said on German TV that Guantanamo will forever be linked with the USA as is Ausschwitz with Germany. He called Bush, Rumsfeld and others war criminals who must be held accountable for their actions. Visit his website, he is one voice of reason to be listened to. He said that even the Nazis had a fair triial and that the rule of law can never be given up or we are no better than Saddam Hussein.

Michael Ratner from the Center for Constitutional Rights in New York has filed charges against Rumsfeld, Alberto Gonzales, George Tenet and a dozen of other high profile US administration and miltary officials for committing war crimes and crimes against humanity to the Federal Public Prosecutor in Germany. In Germany law requires that all crimes against humanity have to be prosecuted, no matter who committed them and where. Fat chance that anything comes out of it but at least they cannot look away anymore.

We all can take action and raise our voices against the war in Iraq and the concentration camp in Guantanamo Bay.

- outside the USA write a letter or email to your US embassy and demand that the war crimes have to end. Tell them you expect the USA to return to the rule of law and to stop violating international law. Tell them you expect the USA to work on a fair solution for Iraq with the help of all countries who can actually help. Demand that Guantanamo is closed. Tell your friends to do the same

- if you are a US citizen - email the President of the United States. Tell him you do not approve of the violations of Human Rights and demand that international law is being observed again. Tell him you want Guantanamo closed. Tell him you expect that the administration makes a genuine effort to find peace in Iraq with the help of the UN and all countries who can help. Tell your friends to do the same and to encourage their own friends to do the same. Phone your Congress representaive and tell him the same.

For help and guidance visit the Amnesty International website - current actions USA.




Haha, you're a funny guy... E-Mail the US President...lmao... =D


"only way to really know what the hell we are doing on this earth is through sacred plants and mushrooms." - Treasure Moment
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Posted: 22 Mar 07, 13:32 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

CMU HistoryGirl wrote:

Leaving all of these refugees to their own devices and the winds of fate is only going to breed more anti-US sentiment and more terrorism in the future, and then the members of the administration will sit around, scratching their heads and wondering where all these new terrorists come from and why they hate us so much.


Bingo.



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Posted: 22 Mar 07, 13:49 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Mr.Jingles wrote:

CMU HistoryGirl wrote:

The fact that no one...not ONE PERSON in the entire administration thought about long term effects makes me very nervous, as was unfortunately what I thought would happen right from the day that Bush announced he was running back in 1999.


Colin Powell was the only one with brains in that administration, and the only one who strongly adviced against the long term effects of invading Iraq.


Then again, he *did* ignore the senior anti-terrorism official's warnings about being able to get Bin Laden in early 2001, because...he was a Clinton-official. Call that a brain? The people in the White House put their bitterness towards democrats before governing the country. Therefore, they are traitors.


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Posted: 22 Mar 07, 15:47 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I agree with Dan and Caspar.
I forgot that Colin Powell was at one time part of this administration...he seems too smart for that. Probably why they managed to force him out.
But I also agree with Caspar, and thus is the danger of a two party system. If you are constantly worried about the next election cycle, and maintaining power, then you aren't likely to focus on anything but that, and grudges against your opponents in the election elevate into something that blinds you to all other problems.
But, unfortunatly, not a whole hell of a lot can be done about it now. I'm getting to the point where I don't even think a viable third party will help. The system almost needs to be completely dismantled, but it's all about finding a balance. Every system as its ups and downs.


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Posted: 22 Mar 07, 15:54 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Your system needs to change to the European (continental) model of a multitude of parties; sure, it's not perfect, but it's a) more democratic as you can vote for something a lot closer to your personal views than in a two-party system b) preventive against radicals taking action, as it is automatically a coalition-system, both in governing as in opposition.


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Posted: 22 Mar 07, 16:05 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

We need a Libertarian in office.

I'm convinced that 75% of the population is composed of moderates, and that 75% of moderates are Libertarian - they just don't know it yet. I mean, what the fuck is a "Libertarian?" You mean those people that are in charge of Libraries?


Creativity can always cover for a lack of knowledge.
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Posted: 22 Mar 07, 16:08 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The point about the term 'libertarian' is that it can mean anything from 'anarcho-syndicalist' to 'ultra-nationalist neo-nazi' (the latter goes for the Dutch Libertarian Party, which, thank god, has no seats in the House or Senate).


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Posted: 22 Mar 07, 16:27 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

<b><font color = "crimson"> ThomasQuinn wrote:

The point about the term 'libertarian' is that it can mean anything from 'anarcho-syndicalist' to 'ultra-nationalist neo-nazi' (the latter goes for the Dutch Libertarian Party, which, thank god, has no seats in the House or Senate).


That's the problem...most people that "represent" Libertarians are fucking nutcases...

But I'm referring to the basic premise of classical liberalism and absolute negative freedom - that we are free to do whatever we wish, as long as it does not infringe upon the rights of others.

I heard a saying once, and it was something like, "If you convince all the gun people that drugs are okay, and all the drug people that guns are okay, then we're all Libertarian."


Creativity can always cover for a lack of knowledge.
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Posted: 22 Mar 07, 17:21 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

As I am personally a Libertarian, I agree with you, Brian.
Caspar, the European system has some merit, as you mentioned, but it also has at least one problem that I can think of right off the top of my head:
Everything becomes so muddled and so watered down that in the end, nothing that is passed has enough teeth to have any effect in what it was intended to do.


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Posted: 23 Mar 07, 18:21 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote




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Posted: 23 Mar 07, 18:39 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sherwood Forest wrote:



I agree.


Creativity can always cover for a lack of knowledge.
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Posted: 23 Mar 07, 22:20 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Libertarian has much different shades of meaning in the USA -- people like Bill Maher, a strident critic of Bush, considers himself a libertarian, as well as some wackos. The nationalists are in the Republican and Conservative parties. And yes--there are many parties in the USA, it's just that the coalitions are built way before the elections.

The sad part--or, one of the sad parts --about Bush is that it's imbued a lack of faith in government at all, big or small, in the USA.


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Posted: 23 Mar 07, 22:34 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

just seen on the news that the democrats have won the senate vote on the withdraw of troops by oct 2008 but it looks as if bush will veto the vote making it null n void.the bloke is a bigger threat to society than anything else in the world.perhaps he should become a cricket coach,if you get my drift.


isnt innuendo an italian suppository?

im gonna ride the wild wind!

its_a_hard_life wrote:you nutcase you rule!

joxer replies: but in a nice way :-]

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Posted: 23 Mar 07, 23:17 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

For what it's worth, I did email the President and asked him to end the violation of human rights and to find peace in Iraq. I also asked that he ensure that his adminstration work with other countries that are in the UN to resolve the issues in Iraq as well as Guantanamo Bay.

I plan on sending him the same email at least once a week.


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