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PieterMC user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 16 Apr 07, 14:38 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Simply awful.... this is worse than Columbine

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18134671/

31 dead....

bitesthedust user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 16 Apr 07, 14:40 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Indeed; read the story this evening, very sad.

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Posted: 16 Apr 07, 14:51 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

That's too sad :(.

Too many evil things in this world, with terrorists and nutcases


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Posted: 16 Apr 07, 15:14 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

It's horrible. I can't imagine the terror the parent's of those students must be feeling, not knowing if their child is among the dead. It's awful. The whole thing is awful. And then, typically, the bastard shot himself. AFTER he killed and wounded all those people.

Two 9mm handguns were involved in this, btw... cause, you know, people have the 'right to bear arms'. How anyone can still defend that 'right' is a wonder to me.



"The others don't like my interviews. And frankly, I don't care much for theirs." ~ Freddie Mercury



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Posted: 16 Apr 07, 15:30 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

On the contrary, the effects of this tragedy would be mitigated if gun laws were not so stringent. Outlawing guns would merely produce a black market for them, more violence, and a higher proportion of guns would be in the hands of criminals. Black markets are not only harmful to the economy, but they also promote violence (consider the illegalization of prostitution and drugs). This is because "contract" disputes cannot be settled in courts, and therefore violence is used instead.

Secondly, a person should have the basic right to do anything he wishes, as long as it does not infringe upon the rights of others (sadly, this is not practiced in all modern laws, such as those outlawing gay marriage and other victimless crimes). Owning a gun does not infringe upon any other person's rights.

Finally, by outlawing guns, one effectively prevents a person to defend himself not only from other people, but the oppression of the government itself. This is perhaps the most compelling reason for the second amendment, and surely the one in mind when it was drafted. If we eliminate this right, all the rest of the rights we enjoy are threatened.


Creativity can always cover for a lack of knowledge.
its_a_hard_life 26994 user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 16 Apr 07, 15:41 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

It's on the UK news channels every minute.

You just feel deeply sad for the loss of the familys of the dead. You also feel how could such a crazy person could be aloud in the building. He had a gun right? They should seriously start having metal detectors in all Schools and Colleges as you pass in and out the buildings.

The Mir@cle user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 16 Apr 07, 15:57 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

<b><font color=666600>Music Man wrote:

On the contrary, the effects of this tragedy would be mitigated if gun laws were not so stringent. Outlawing guns would merely produce a black market for them, more violence, and a higher proportion of guns would be in the hands of criminals. Black markets are not only harmful to the economy, but they also promote violence (consider the illegalization of prostitution and drugs). This is because "contract" disputes cannot be settled in courts, and therefore violence is used instead.

Secondly, a person should have the basic right to do anything he wishes, as long as it does not infringe upon the rights of others (sadly, this is not practiced in all modern laws, such as those outlawing gay marriage and other victimless crimes). Owning a gun does not infringe upon any other person's rights.

Finally, by outlawing guns, one effectively prevents a person to defend himself not only from other people, but the oppression of the government itself. This is perhaps the most compelling reason for the second amendment, and surely the one in mind when it was drafted. If we eliminate this right, all the rest of the rights we enjoy are threatened.


I think we discussed about this before... You give arguments which are never proven, while in Europe guns are actually outlawed and there are fewer accidents here. But let's be honest... Legal guns or illegal guns. I think that nothing would have stopped this idiot of killing those people.

Terrible... I feel sorry for the family and friends of all the victims.


I got to try al little more,

because I'm an asshole but I'm learning.



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Boy Thomas Raker user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 16 Apr 07, 16:06 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

That's a very, very good post, The Mir@cle. No amount of statistics will convince people who believe in guns of Americans right to carry them.


You know, good times are now.
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Posted: 16 Apr 07, 16:19 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

<font color=#CC0066 face="Bradley Hand ITC"> The Mir@cle </font> wrote:

<b><font color=666600>Music Man wrote:

On the contrary, the effects of this tragedy would be mitigated if gun laws were not so stringent. Outlawing guns would merely produce a black market for them, more violence, and a higher proportion of guns would be in the hands of criminals. Black markets are not only harmful to the economy, but they also promote violence (consider the illegalization of prostitution and drugs). This is because "contract" disputes cannot be settled in courts, and therefore violence is used instead.

Secondly, a person should have the basic right to do anything he wishes, as long as it does not infringe upon the rights of others (sadly, this is not practiced in all modern laws, such as those outlawing gay marriage and other victimless crimes). Owning a gun does not infringe upon any other person's rights.

Finally, by outlawing guns, one effectively prevents a person to defend himself not only from other people, but the oppression of the government itself. This is perhaps the most compelling reason for the second amendment, and surely the one in mind when it was drafted. If we eliminate this right, all the rest of the rights we enjoy are threatened.


I think we discussed about this before... You give arguments which are never proven, while in Europe guns are actually outlawed and there are fewer accidents here. But let's be honest... Legal guns or illegal guns. I think that nothing would have stopped this idiot of killing those people.

Terrible... I feel sorry for the family and friends of all the victims.


It's officially the deadliest shooting in United States history.

Accidents are NO justification for legislation. The government has no responsibility to prevent us from making accidents. To even believe that is absolutely absurd.

The government's responsibility should be limited to protecting our freedoms, not taking them away to shape society in the way it deems fit. It is a gross injustice to prevent someone from living their life the way they want to, if this way of life does not infringe upon the rights of others. Throw out any statistics you like, but this principle should not waver, not ever. Perhaps it is different in Europe, but in the United States, rights to life, liberty, property, and the pursuit of happiness should be (but sadly aren't always) INALIENABLE.

Guns should also be legal because we all have the right to defend ourselves. Those 30+ people that died today could not depend on the government to protect them, but could have easily defended themselves if gun laws were not so stringent.

Finally, my arguments are proven. All the various black markets that currently exist, most notably drugs, operate in the same manner. What you mentioned, concerning accidental injury, has nothing to do with this argument at all.


Creativity can always cover for a lack of knowledge.
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Posted: 16 Apr 07, 16:21 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Boy Thomas Raker wrote:

That's a very, very good post, The Mir@cle. No amount of statistics will convince people who believe in guns of Americans right to carry them.


We all know that statistics are bullshit, and can be spun to say whatever you want. However, I agree that statistics are a good way to determine things. But they should NEVER, EVER be used to COMPROMISE our basic rights to absolute negative liberty.


Creativity can always cover for a lack of knowledge.
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Posted: 16 Apr 07, 16:28 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

shocking news.
but at least its given sky news something to report now instead of just going on about prince bloody william and his girlfriend splitting up.


isnt innuendo an italian suppository?

im gonna ride the wild wind!

its_a_hard_life wrote:you nutcase you rule!

joxer replies: but in a nice way :-]

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Posted: 16 Apr 07, 16:30 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

joxerthecornishpirate wrote:

shocking news.
but at least its given sky news something to report now instead of just going on about prince bloody william and his girlfriend splitting up.


I know you ment well, but that sounded wrong! xD

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Posted: 16 Apr 07, 16:45 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

<font color="#FF00FF">its_a_hard_life wrote:

joxerthecornishpirate wrote:

shocking news.
but at least its given sky news something to report now instead of just going on about prince bloody william and his girlfriend splitting up.


I know you ment well, but that sounded wrong! xD

probably could of phrased it better but you get my drift.THIS is news,even if its bad.prince william splitting up with kate ISNT imho,and that is all sky and others have been going on about for the last 2 days.


isnt innuendo an italian suppository?

im gonna ride the wild wind!

its_a_hard_life wrote:you nutcase you rule!

joxer replies: but in a nice way :-]

Micrówave user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 16 Apr 07, 17:15 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Yes, they should make all guns illegal. That way no one would be able to get one.

If we could not blame the following for this shooting, that would be nice:

1. Gun Laws
2. Bush
3. Rutgers
4. Sanjaya

The idea about metal detectors is nice, but hardly realistic. Remember, people PAY MONEY to go to college. Who is going to want to go to one that requires a bulletproof vest?

I've often wondered in these school shootings: What is the ROTC program doing at those times? Bring back the early morning marches in full dress. That way if you see some guy waving a gun, it's easier to convince him to stop doing that with a batallion than University Police. It took the University Police two hours to investigate the first shooting? Campus should have been on lock-down at that exact moment.

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Posted: 16 Apr 07, 17:23 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Micrówave wrote:

Yes, they should make all guns illegal. That way no one would be able to get one.

If we could not blame the following for this shooting, that would be nice:

1. Gun Laws
2. Bush
3. Rutgers
4. Sanjaya

The idea about metal detectors is nice, but hardly realistic. Remember, people PAY MONEY to go to college. Who is going to want to go to one that requires a bulletproof vest?

I've often wondered in these school shootings: What is the ROTC program doing at those times? Bring back the early morning marches in full dress. That way if you see some guy waving a gun, it's easier to convince him to stop doing that with a batallion than University Police. It took the University Police two hours to investigate the first shooting? Campus should have been on lock-down at that exact moment.

i agree with you on everything you've written there,apart from your first line re guns.as the old saying goes ''where theres a will theres a way''


isnt innuendo an italian suppository?

im gonna ride the wild wind!

its_a_hard_life wrote:you nutcase you rule!

joxer replies: but in a nice way :-]

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Posted: 16 Apr 07, 17:40 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Micrówave wrote:

Campus should have been on lock-down at that exact moment.


This is what I don't understand. Why didn't this occur? It's said an email wasn't sent out (to whom?) until two hours after the first shooting - which was when the second round began. And now they mention bomb threats the school received last week...

Shouldn't they have already been on high alert?

Maybe it's all hindsight, I don't know. It just seems like something could have been done to either prevent or minimize this tragedy.


"The others don't like my interviews. And frankly, I don't care much for theirs." ~ Freddie Mercury



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Posted: 16 Apr 07, 17:46 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

joxerthecornishpirate wrote:

Micrówave wrote:

Yes, they should make all guns illegal. That way no one would be able to get one.


i agree with you on everything you've written there,apart from your first line re guns.as the old saying goes ''where theres a will theres a way''


That was for all the safety nuts out there.

Another tip: Ban the use of knives, shanks, shivs, and other contraband in all prisons. Tell prisoners it is wrong to hurt other prisoners. That way the violence in jails would go away.

Next: Ban fire

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Posted: 16 Apr 07, 17:49 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

magicalfreddiemercury wrote:

It just seems like something could have been done to either prevent or minimize this tragedy.


Why does someone always say this afterwards? No offense, but maybe nothing could have been done. Sometimes people are just bad. Stop blaming society, his parents, his teachers, the kid who made fun of his hair, whatever.

Excuses are like a-holes.

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Posted: 16 Apr 07, 17:58 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I would actively and loudly question why, after the first shooting, that the school was not put on immediate 100% total lockdown.




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Posted: 16 Apr 07, 17:59 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

You can make statistics do what you want to, Music Man, I totally agree. Madonna and Britney Spears supporters would argue that they are peers of the Beatles, and better than Queen because of sales. However, if you believe at all in statistics, you surely know the following to be true: Americans are exponentially more likely to die from a handgun than anywhere else in the world.

Consider Australia. The US has nearly 14 times Australia's population. It has 64 times Australia's total gun deaths, and 211 times its gun homicides. (According to US government statistics, approximately 9,000 people die every year from homicide with a handgun as weapon of choice.) In the other direction we have Japan with the world's toughest gun laws. Japan has just over seven times Australia's population, but in 1992, enjoying the world's lowest homicide rate, it had just 60 people murdered with guns--nearly 30% less than Australia's recent annual average of 85 people murdered with guns. If Australia had the America's gun homicide rate, they would have 1894--more than five a day. I'm Canadian, and we have 60 to 80 handgun deaths a year, which most Canadian's believe is 60 to 80 too many.

So, I believe that people believe what they want to Music Man, and no disrespect, but the constitutional right to bear arms seems to me succeeds in giving American's the constitutional right to be murdered at a rate that far exceeds any other nation in the world. America is a hawkish country, and believes that might is right. Looking at the numbers of people who are murdered with guns compared to other countries, I'd really think the assertion that the average man in the street should be armed needs to be questioned. If not, no surprise when the next horror occurs.

Condolences to the families of the victims first and foremost.



You know, good times are now.