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Dan C. user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 20 May 07, 09:14 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/05/18/iraq.honorkilling/index.html


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Posted: 20 May 07, 09:40 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Dan Corson VI: Son of Altered Beast wrote:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/05/18/iraq.honorkilling/index.html


It's beyond appalling. I was stunned when they showed the video of this on the news. Stunned. That poor girl. I can't imagine the terror she must have felt. And those pricks around her just watching, police included. Some say it's their culture and yet so many from that culture are outraged by this. Not enough, apparently, since they allowed that girl to be murdered.

Horrible.



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Posted: 20 May 07, 10:00 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

It is absolutely appalling. Unfortunately, these "Honor Killings" are not unheard of in the Middle East, though they are not exactly common. I know there are several efforts by women's groups to combat this problem, but there is limited success due to limited access. They often occur in small villages, and the elders of the village will not let anyone from a female-related organization in, and any attempt to help by a more neutral group is circumvented by the elders.
Many people it is simply the Islamic religion, which is the not the case. Islam is actually more pro-woman than the Bible is, if you actually read it and compare the two. It's the interpretation that f*s up the situation. Christianity went through the same type of thing, about 800 years ago. Islam is simply at the stage that Christianity and Judaism have already been through in the past...how to cope with a modern world around you.
This, however, is appalling and disgusting and cruel. Unfortunately, nothing is likely to be done about it.


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Posted: 20 May 07, 13:21 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I don't even know what to say. Just awful :-(


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Posted: 20 May 07, 16:04 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Thousands of these happen each year...

Great world we live in.


"The walls we build around us to keep sadness out also keep out the joy."

(Jim Rohn)
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Posted: 21 May 07, 03:41 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Hundreds of thousands of women are abused, raped, killed and deprived of the most basic rights all over the world. Millions of women are property of their husbands or male relatives with no right of self determination. Thousands of women are subject to Female Genital Mutilation each day (over a million women each year), so called honor killings happen everywhere. Even in Europe Turkish and Arabic families execute so called honor killings - of course the killers are convicted for murder in Europe.

We may feel helpless but we can do our share to stop this incredible violence by joining help organisations, donating money and raisinge our voices.

http://web.amnesty.org/actforwomen/index-eng

is a good start - you don't need to become a member or donate money, just suscribe to the email notification for campaigns.


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Posted: 21 May 07, 12:23 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

YourValentine wrote:


...we can do our share to stop this incredible violence by joining help organisations, donating money and raisinge our voices.


This really does nothing except fund political organizations with an agenda and clog your email. It's really up to the citizens of each country to put an end to their horrific acts. If they don't care, well, my money isn't going there.

AI is a multi-million dollar organization. But besides throwing great concerts and a website that shows nearly every country doing terrible things, what exactly has it succeeded in? They didn't get Pinochet to do anything, and he was one of their top targets in the 90s.

Donating a hour of your time volunteering at a women's shelter or a soup kitchen would be much more productive, but no one really wants to see the problem face to face. They'd rather send a check and pat themselves on the back for helping out... then using the deduction when filing their taxes.


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Posted: 21 May 07, 14:14 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Micrówave wrote:



This really does nothing except fund political organizations with an agenda and clog your email. It's really up to the citizens of each country to put an end to their horrific acts. If they don't care, well, my money isn't going there.

AI is a multi-million dollar organization. But besides throwing great concerts and a website that shows nearly every country doing terrible things, what exactly has it succeeded in? They didn't get Pinochet to do anything, and he was one of their top targets in the 90s.

Donating a hour of your time volunteering at a women's shelter or a soup kitchen would be much more productive, but no one really wants to see the problem face to face. They'd rather send a check and pat themselves on the back for helping out... then using the deduction when filing their taxes.


I agree that getting personally involved is the best way to help out. It works on so many levels. It's nearly impossible to know the extent of the abuses out there unless you experience them or the results of them directly. That experience will/should bring about an awareness that makes it unacceptable.

However, a few volunteers at a women's shelter, for example, won't be enough. The husband/boyfriend she's hiding from will eventually find her. That is unless there is a wider support group out there ready to protect her. So, sending in that check really does help. And being part of an organization that distributes information helps also. Every little bit that brings attention to these things helps in some way. It's not the answer, but I wouldn't discount it completely.

YourValentine wrote:


We may feel helpless but we can do our share to stop this incredible violence by joining help organisations, donating money and raisinge our voices.

http://web.amnesty.org/actforwomen/index-eng

is a good start - you don't need to become a member or donate money, just suscribe to the email notification for campaigns.


I just subscribed to their emails, YourValentine. Thanks for the link.




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Posted: 22 May 07, 03:43 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

"Donating a hour of your time volunteering at a women's shelter or a soup kitchen would be much more productive, but no one really wants to see the problem face to face. They'd rather send a check and pat themselves on the back for helping out... then using the deduction when filing their taxes"

How do you know? Certainly you are not involved with any human rights organisation. It's cheap to badmouth people who do get involved. In my experience people who are members in human rights and other social organisations are also the ones who help out themselves and give their time.


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Posted: 22 May 07, 03:59 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Dreadful



why does everyone write so much?
I can never get past the first sentence...


Evil will always triumph 'cause good is dumb.
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Posted: 22 May 07, 13:23 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

YourValentine wrote:



How do you know? Certainly you are not involved with any human rights organisation. It's cheap to badmouth people who do get involved. In my experience people who are members in human rights and other social organisations are also the ones who help out themselves and give their time.


No, Barb, I don't belong to AI, which you are schilling for. Calm down. Nothing cheap about anything here. You're mad because I'm right. Please explain how your check has provided relief? You can't.

I however am involved EVERY thanksgiving at St. Vincent's Kitchen serving meals to homeless people. I don't do it to make myself feel better, I do it because I have so much compared to them. What's one day?

But you telling people to sign up for emails because that will help women around the world? Please!

Also remember that A.I. doesn't think the Isreal/Palestine conflict is that big of a deal. And that's a fact. Everyone has an agenda.

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Posted: 22 May 07, 14:29 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

He's right, insofar as that just about every organization has its own agenda, and you never know how your money is really spent.

It's a kind gesture, but he's right that it's a flawed one.


Creativity can always cover for a lack of knowledge.
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Posted: 22 May 07, 14:38 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Micrówave wrote:

YourValentine wrote:


...we can do our share to stop this incredible violence by joining help organisations, donating money and raisinge our voices.


This really does nothing except fund political organizations with an agenda and clog your email. It's really up to the citizens of each country to put an end to their horrific acts. If they don't care, well, my money isn't going there.

AI is a multi-million dollar organization. But besides throwing great concerts and a website that shows nearly every country doing terrible things, what exactly has it succeeded in? They didn't get Pinochet to do anything, and he was one of their top targets in the 90s.

Donating a hour of your time volunteering at a women's shelter or a soup kitchen would be much more productive, but no one really wants to see the problem face to face. They'd rather send a check and pat themselves on the back for helping out... then using the deduction when filing their taxes.


They do much more than you might think. Why don't you read their monthly magazine just once, it'll give you a good view on what they do.

And be grateful I'm so polite; assholes don't usually receive that courtesy off me.


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Posted: 22 May 07, 14:41 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

<b><font color=666600>Music Man wrote:

He's right, insofar as that just about every organization has its own agenda, and you never know how your money is really spent.

It's a kind gesture, but he's right that it's a flawed one.


Only if you are totally oblivious, in your extremely negative view of humanity, of the way Amnesty operates, and the fact that it is not run by heartless managers, but by highly engaged idealists.


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Posted: 22 May 07, 15:17 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

"Also remember that A.I. doesn't think the Isreal/Palestine conflict is that big of a deal. And that's a fact."
A fact? why do they issue reports about the region each year? I am not campaigning for ai, it was just an example. It does not matter where you get involved as long as you do get involved. However, you should get more information before insulting thousands of people who really make a difference.


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Posted: 22 May 07, 17:39 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Ok Thomas A Hole and Barb, then explain this:

human rights NGOs, such as HRW, Amnesty International, the International Commission of Jurists, etc., should have been very aware of the scale of these human rights violations in Sudan. Yet, as Prof. Don Habibi has noted, "despite the scale, scope, and duration of this genocide, it was never a priority on the agendas of AI, HRW or the UN." Amnesty International, the "world's largest private human rights organization," and possibly its most prolific, managed to produce a total of 7 reports on Sudan during this time period (March 7, 2001 to October 13, 2001). 5 of those reports addressed the arrest and imprisonment of specific human rights lawyers. One mentioned the massive human rights violations being committed by the Sudanese military and allied forces. However, this report was not addressed to the government in Khartoum, the Arab League, or the UN, but to the Canadian oil company, Talisman Energy.

And besides, Thomas, I really could care less what a little child like you has to say. You shouldn't be allowed to be on the same website as someone with a keen mind as Barbara.

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Posted: 22 May 07, 18:41 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

<b><font color = "crimson"> ThomasQuinn wrote:

Why don't you read their monthly magazine just once


You can read?

It must have pictures on every page or big words for you to understand it.

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Posted: 22 May 07, 20:17 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I don't quite understand the criticism that the ai report AI Index AFR 54/010/2001 was adressed to Talisman Energy and not the government in Sudan. It was meant to raise the concern and awarenes of Talisman Energy - of course it was adressed to them. The Sudan has been on the priority list and still is. Visit the American website and check under "our issues".

No matter which problem or issue you address - there is always someone who tells you that there are other problems and issues which deserve your attention just as well. With regard to human rights issues there are always lots of problems and issues in our own countries - so why don't we clean up at home before we meddle into the business of other nations and cultures? The answer is: it makes a bigger impression when the criticism comes from outside your county, I have seen this in many cases in my own country because we have human rights violations, too. Certainly, a lot of mistakes are made in a big organisation like ai but it's independent and non-ideological. It's still better to get involved and help avoiding mistakes because an individual does not make that much noise and does not have any power to make the difference. A big organisation does not always speak with "one voice", either because people have very different backgrounds and opinions.


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Posted: 22 May 07, 21:28 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

<b><font color = "crimson"> ThomasQuinn wrote:

<b><font color=666600>Music Man wrote:

He's right, insofar as that just about every organization has its own agenda, and you never know how your money is really spent.

It's a kind gesture, but he's right that it's a flawed one.


Only if you are totally oblivious, in your extremely negative view of humanity, of the way Amnesty operates, and the fact that it is not run by heartless managers, but by highly engaged idealists.


And I'm sure Enron was run by proponents of corporate social responsibility. Give any organization money, power, or resources and it will be abused - regardless who is running it.


Creativity can always cover for a lack of knowledge.
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Posted: 22 May 07, 21:40 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I admire some things that AI does...just like I admire some things the Red Cross and Doctors Without Boarders do.
But MusicMan is right. People are more than willing to donate money to a cause...as Microwave said, it's easier to write a check than to get personally involved. But get enough money together and....
well, everyone has their price.


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